Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of Living on Blockchain. Today we are speaking to Yatharth, he is working in the DePIN space, he calls himself the Deepin Daddy and this was an interesting conversation for many reasons because Deepin is all the rage nowadays, everybody is talking about how they’re building in Deepin and you know we’ve seen a lot of buzz around this term and I wanted to talk to somebody who’s actually in the trenches building something in a decentralized infrastructure space. He is not just working in the decentralized infrastructure space because the solution kind of caters to AI and Web3, you know it’s all the sectors combined and it was a very interesting conversation.
He’s a young guy who has worked in the trenches in Web3 and now he’s working on something on his This is a very interesting conversation for many reasons and I can’t wait for you guys to hear this. Hi Yatharth, thank you so much for making the time to speak to me today, how are you doing? I’m doing good, what about you? I’m doing wonderfully well, thank you so much, can you tell us a little about your background for our listeners and how you got into Web3, then we can talk about what you’re building. Got it, so yeah I’m Yatharth aka Deepin Daddy, people usually call me Deepin Daddy or YJ, so basically I have been in this industry since a while, I have been in the space since 2019, so the very start of my journey was, like I started my journey off by helping a couple of projects around being their ambassadors and then moving on towards the community and marketing roles towards them, so some of the projects include Trace Network Labs, Push Protocol, then after that we got into, like I got interested into the business development side in this Web3 space and then I worked around with Router Protocol as a business developer associate and from there the journey began, like it’s a long journey where initially I was versatile in nature, I did community growth, I did marketing, I was one of the ambassadors for Push Protocol as well as I helped them in marketing as well, so this is a short journey of me since 2019 and then in early 2023 I was working for a Deepin project building their GPU cycles or you can say I was working in their business development team, getting them GPUs as well as getting them clients to use those GPUs and that’s where I figured out that there is something which is a flaw in this industry that I might, like we can discuss it over in the later stages and that’s where to overcome that flaw we ideated Cluster Protocol.
All right, so you’ve had quite a journey and a ton of experience basically while moving to you know Cluster eventually, tell me a little about the vision that you have for Cluster. So the ultimate vision for Cluster Protocol is to provide an interface in the AI for anyone to hop onto the platform and even if you are a techie or a non-techie you should be able to get your desired AI solution, that’s the ultimate goal of it. So say if you want to make a customized AI agent, let’s say Tarasha you want to build an AI agent who can talk like you or who can take such interviews or podcasts like this on their own with their own voice or with a clone of your own voice, it would be hell difficult till now as well because of the fact that this industry like, so I’ll, we can even go more deeper into how to make anything AI or maybe any solution in AI but to get you a crux, the integrity in this ecosystem is missing at the moment.
Everyone in this deep in space is building GPU marketplaces, some of them have figured out the supply side of it but some of them hasn’t figured out the demand yet, so it’s a chicken and egg problem which the industry or the deep in industry is trying to figure it out like some of them has demand but they don’t have supply, some of them have supply but they don’t have demand. So that’s where our core vision is to empower each individual be it a business owner, be it an AI researcher, be it an AI enthusiast or someone a non-techie who wants to build something in AI. So that’s the whole vision of democratizing AI and making AI accessible for all.
All right, that’s quite an ambitious vision. So if you had to summarize what you guys are you know building and say or lying, how would you do that? So cluster protocol is building an infrastructure for AI and deep ins and we aim to become the next github of AI models. All right, that’s a very easy way I think for people to understand that you want to be the next gate for AI models and you’re creating an infrastructure there for deep ins, right? Deep in and for AI as well.
So if you’ll see in this current industry deep ins are just so if you if you’ll break down what deep ins is it’s nothing but decentralized physical infrastructure network, right? So there’s a physical infra it could be anything you can make a deep in infra of laptops as well. Let’s say you connect thousands and thousands of laptops and then there’s an infra there’s a deep in network there you can make it of any IOT sensor as well. So that’s deep in.
So here what we are dealing is in the AI space is you need compute right and with compute it is the GPU that is a graphic processing unit or maybe you can say it’s nothing but the graphic card that is installed in your computer, right? So if you want to build that is the core physical infra let’s say GPU is the core physical infra and if you build a decentralized network of that GPUs over blockchain that is what the current deep in scenario is towards the AI side but there are other projects as well like so there are projects named as get grass then grass.io if you have heard of them then there is another one helium and there are other segments as well like a peak network is doing good like in multiple in like in multiple building multiple things in the deep in space. So they even in like could have collaborated with Tesla as well. So they launched 40 Tesla or network of deep in network of 40 Tesla’s.
So something like that could be considered as deep in. All right. Okay.
And if you had to say because deep in is like all the rage now and it’s very new and in our podcast we basically want to leave the jargon behind. If you had to explain what deep in is to our listeners how would you go about doing that? So yeah deep in so as like the intro that I gave you I guess that clearly explained what deep in is. So I can repeat it again it’s decentralized physical infrastructure network.
So of any physical infra it could be anything which which could be connected to together. If you want to build a decentralized network that is over a blockchain that could be considered as deep in. So maybe so that the example previously I took about those Tesla’s right.
So an infra of cameras so say if you install cameras in those Tesla’s sensor a camera sensor or something that could also be considered as a deep in network. Then if you want to say there are those routers those Wi-Fi routers that you have right for providing internet. So some of the brands are working towards that side some of our working towards these IOT sensors some of some of them are working towards this cameras and there was this project I didn’t remember their name.
So they onboarded truck drivers right. So they onboarded truck drivers and they had installed cameras in their trucks. Okay.
So it was recording each and everything that was also a deep in and it’s a popular name. I’m not sure if helium did that or there is another one helium didn’t did that. There was another one.
I’m not sure about the name. So that is also a great move. So there was one truck driver.
I was in a private telegram chat in a telegram group with a couple of like folks who are enthusiastic about deep ins. So I had a quick word with him and he said that okay I’m riding my truck right and it’s nothing it’s just this camera is recording things off and I’m making money out of it. Right.
So deep in is also empowering users you can say or you can consider that deep in is making X making things more accessible for the users because in the back end the end user doesn’t care what is happening. If you have shown the user that okay if we take example of helium right. So what it does is it says that okay you buy the modem or the router you put it off you need some basic installation and once it’s done you are doing like you are earning helium out of it.
Right. It’s as simple as that. Right.
Yeah. So I asked you the question again because I wanted you to perhaps give more examples to substantiate what you had said which you did very wonderfully. I think it should be very clear for our listeners that deep in is nothing but decentralized physical infrastructure and think of it like multiple nodes perhaps and that would be an easy way for you to picture it and visually learn about it.
Now when it comes to cluster protocol how do you differentiate yourself from other AI and blockchain projects. I understand what you’re doing is obviously you know a USB in itself but nevertheless is there a differentiating factor. Yes.
So basically there are a couple of differentiating factors at cluster protocol as well. So first thing first in the deep in space of we are also having a deep in network of GPUs which range from consumer grade GPUs to industrial grade GPUs. So if I’ll say to you so you you always don’t need those flashy GPUs of maybe a 10 G’s a hundreds H hundreds or the newest one of Nvidia that is I believe B 200.
You don’t need those GPUs for basic inferencing or basic inference. It could be done over CPU as well if I say right and on top of that basic compute. So basically our USP there is we are building an AI powered recommendation layer on top of our own deep in network.
So say let’s take an example of you sitting in Portugal and you want to do some let’s XYZ it as that you want to achieve and you want to cluster for just for the compute though we have the facility of providing you high quality local local models as well as decentralized data sets as well. But you thought of I have everything. I am a techie and I just want to compute.
And I saw that the cluster protocol is something and I want to check that check us out. So what are USP there is this recommendation layer. So say let’s let’s consider that task is to be done via and you have two options available to you.
One is RTX 4090 which is a consumer grade compute. Another one is an 8 and G which is an industrial grade compute. Okay, so let’s say so so what our AI layer or recommendation layer will do is it will suggest you the time for completion of both the tasks.
Okay, so it will suggest that okay, that task, let’s say if that task is to be done over a 10 g in five minutes, and over 4090 in seven minutes, but you save the cost over 4090. That is significant that is say let’s consider that more than 40%. So it will suggest you if you can afford extra two minutes, then you should go for 4090 instead of eight ng.
So that’s the first deep in like that’s the first USP of us in the deep inside. Apart from that, it’s all about the integrity that we are providing and the holistic ecosystem and the infrastructure that we are providing. So that makes us special from others all others, you’ll find many projects which are claiming that okay, we are building the future of AI.
But there is a lot of things that is missing from the fundamentals of them. So we our architecture is so simple. And anyone can come to our consumer side that is, is like a very simple thing where within few clicks, anyone can like host their own customized AI agent using the base AI models, then decentralized data sets and compute instead of you going to several places and gathering things around and then figuring the tech out and opening your console and doing multiple stuff.
And it’s all done over servers or over cloud. That’s where so there’s another problem which I can explain you. So I have I had a word with actual AI developers, right? So the major problem that they face is of AI training, inference could be done over cloud, but when they want to train it, either it’s a decentralized server, or a decentralized platform, or even it’s a centralized platform like AWS, or maybe hugging face, people face issues while training those models.
That is why they train their model on their local and then they host them off just for the inference part. What we have done here is we are making that thing easy as well. And anyone can train their own model on our cluster arena as well in the coming future.
So you like all the listeners could check us out in our white papers on our websites, you’ll have a clear roadmap of how we are looking around and how we are moving towards making AI accessible for all. On top of that for data sets. It’s like the it’s all our own proprietary tech where we are leveraging zk as well as FH fully homomorphic encryption to make sure that the integrity of the data lies within the people who are uploading their data.
So if I’ll explain to you what FH is, because most of the people might be knowing about zk, but FH is a is fairly a newer topic and a newer concept. So homomorphic encryption, if you use a fully homomorphic encryption is something where once you encrypt the data, that data is never decrypted at any point of time. And still you can do the computation over that data and you can get the result out of it.
So consider it in this way, I can explain it to you by a simple analogy. Let’s say there is a box, there’s a box and there’s a small slit of in that box. Yeah, and you have put a dollar into that box.
Now without knowing also how zk works is there is a probability there is a game of probability that it will be there there’s a probability those proofs will play and it will try to estimate the money that is there in the box. But what FH would do is it will never say that there is $1 in this box. But still, you will be able to understand that, okay, there is $1 in this box, while what happens in zk is it will give you a probable answer, okay, the amount that is there in this box is less than $1 or maybe anything like less than $2 or more than $0.
So that’s where zk and FHE lies way apart. FHE is in in nascent stage. There are a couple of companies alongside us which are working over it, which includes zama.ai as well.
So zama.ai has its own library known as concrete ml, which is one of the most advanced FHE library till date ever existed. So that’s one thing. And like I believe I have already explained you the core USPs of why one should hop onto cluster instead of any other AI or deepin project.
Right. So that’s a very intense and extensive, you know, explanation about the platform itself. Now, if you could break it down for us and our users, if somebody from our listeners wants to perhaps contribute, rent or buy resources from within your cluster protocol ecosystem, how are you empowering the participants to do that? So first things first.
So if you want to buy compute, right, you’ll hop onto our compute arena where we have this, we have two things working. I’m sure like your audience would be technical enough to understand these things. So there are two aspects to it.
One is proof of availability. Another one is proof of compute. So proof of availability will ensure from the deepin network the best compute that is available.
And on that proof of availability, there’s this recommendation layer. And the proof of compute layer is the trustless verification layer, which allows you to verify that the compute that you are getting is actual compute. So say, if you have claimed that you have one A hundred, okay, and you are lending that out for one month to someone.
Now, how will one verify that is it an actual A hundred instance that you own? Or is it a Raspberry Pi or maybe A10G or maybe a cluster of 10, 40, 90s you are powering that compute from? That’s where the proof of compute layer comes into picture. And that is how within like, if someone wants to try it off, so we would be shooting our GPU marketplace real soon within this June live for people to test it out as well. So people can test it out.
And I myself have tested out. It’s real smooth. It’s real easy within a few clicks.
Your compute is all with you. Right. So, you know, you mentioned proof of compute here, which is going to be my next question.
And you kind of explained that already. How do you perhaps ensure the security and integrity of the AI models and data within a decentralized framework? So, yeah, for that, as I already explained that we are leveraging ZKML as well as FHE fully homomorphic encryption. So there’s a dual mechanism which takes place here.
So the major issue for using ZKML as a whole is that, as I already explained to you, the game of probability, right? So when you don’t have so. So let’s say you want to train your AI model or you want to train your AI model on some data. How would you like? It doesn’t make any sense to train your AI model on the probability of data or I’m saying that, OK, this data could be like this.
This data has some probability and you are putting that instead of that, you should have the accurate data, right? That’s where we are using ZKML as well as FHE. So what will happen is from the data nodes pool, we are using ZKML for that. What will happen is for the data nodes, the integrity is maintained by ZK.
And then after that, if in case, say, if we want to fetch some data from those data nodes, so say, let’s say if we want to put in, OK, so if we want to put in, let’s say, an example of stating that who is Tarusha Mittal, OK, so what will happen is a request would be sent from this site to the data nodes. And then if in case we are able to find that answer, we’ll encrypt that over FHE and that would be gone towards the compute part of the deep in part. And that’s where the computation will done and we will get some answer out of it.
Or for this is something that is more towards the inference level, but you can understand through analogies how it would be done on the training level as well of AI models. So, yeah, these are the two things that we are leveraging and we are making sure that our AI models and the datasets part is highly secure and versatile in nature. Right.
This sounds very, very interesting. And considering you’re right in the middle of it, I think it would be the right person to ask. There is a lot of talk about AI tokens and, you know, this particular inflection point that we have reached in the tech journey as a whole ecosystem about how there’s going to be a convergence of AI and blockchain.
What is your take on that? And this is not just from the perspective of cluster protocol, but, you know, just as a whole, what are your thoughts about AI tokens and how do you see this particular two sectors coming together and working out and shaping the world? Right. I am quite bullish on this, to be honest. People might say that, OK, so if you’ll see the top tokens that is rendered, then there’s BitTensor, Tau and there are a couple of others.
So if you’ll say that they have reached quite a lot of market caps, they are in hype and this must fad away. So I just have one line to them. The total market cap of all the AI tokens is around 30 to 40 billion dollars.
And if you’ll see the combined market cap of SHIB and DOGE, it’s almost equivalent. So I think that there’s a lot of room and scope there as well. If just two of the top meme coins could, like what I can say, if two of the top two meme coins collective market cap is equivalent to the whole AI tokens ecosystems market cap, then you can imagine how early we are in or what do you think about it? I would love to know your thoughts as well, Tarusha, over this.
You know, I really think and I truly believe that, you know, AI would require blockchain technology. It’s very imperative, especially with the kind of content misinformation, just general, you know, in general, we’ve been bombarded with a lot of content information as well as misinformation. And I think to counter that, we would need a Web3 technology to be implemented there.
This is like one simple use case that has always been at the top of my mind when anybody asks me about the inflection point between AI and, you know, blockchain technologies. I do think that there are some really wonderful projects that are coming up that are utilizing both AI as well as Web3 and moving forward. And like always in our ecosystem, I think there are always, there’s always some noise.
There are some projects that haven’t really shown a lot of promise in terms of their vision yet. I can’t see promise in terms of the project because I think it’s too early, you know, day for any project to have shown or proven their mettle. But some of them have their vision right.
And some of them, it sounds a little like fluff. And you need to be wary of that. But having said that, I do think that this is a lot like the early days of NFTs, where there was a lot of, you know, hype and there was a lot of noise.
But use case scenarios have evolved since then. Sadly, none of them have taken off like digital art collectibles and found a good PMF. But I do think that it’s going to be different here.
So that is my take. No, that’s very true. That’s very true.
And for NFTs as well, like if we can go a little bit off topic, I think that the actual hype of NFTs is still yet to come. Right, yeah, because the use cases are still evolving, right. And right now, whatever use cases have come forward, be it decentralized identity, or, you know, tickets or anything, all of them have not really taken off in a very big way.
But that doesn’t mean that the use cases, you know, it’s a dynamic space, and people will figure out wonderfully new ways to use this technology, because it’s a robust piece of tech. It is just that, you know, finding a PMF in a very small niche like Web3 for an even perhaps smaller niche of NFT technologies is an uphill task, but it doesn’t mean that we won’t get there. Yeah, that’s very true.
It’s so I can put an analogy around of, I can put this analogy around of saying that, okay, when there was just Bitcoin and Ethereum came into picture, and Ethereum grew towards in the last 10 years or something. What happened was, people never thought of if DeFi or anything like ordinals or something could happen over Bitcoin, but it’s happening right now, right? There are ordinals, there’s this runes, and it is a clear indication in this Bitcoin ecosystem that it could roar and it could evolve even better than Ethereum, right? So I believe, yeah, there’s a lot of scope there in the NFT space as well to bombard, not just the basic 1155 or 721, but there are a couple of other standards as well, which would evolve, and I think that those would be the actual utility and the use cases of it. Hmm, yeah, I think you’re right.
Absolutely. And now, you know, talking on the same lines of how we’ve zoomed out and we’re talking about the ecosystem, I would love to know what have your learnings been or what has been perhaps the most rewarding experience in the Web3 space so far? Because, you know, you’ve had some experience and you’ve brought that experience for Cluster Protocol, and I’m sure that over the years, you know, you’ve had some interesting experiences and some interesting learnings. I would love for you to share those anecdotes with us.
Most rewarding is that the community itself is collaborative. That’s the very first thing that I think is something that is there in the Web3 space, because there’s not a lot of people who are actually building first things first. There are a couple of them only or maybe a handful of them.
And in total as well, people who are there in this industry, actively involved in this industry, there might be many folks who have just invested in BTC and then they have forgot about it. But I am talking about the actual folks who are looking around, maybe learning around right away as well. So I also started by learning things off, right? I was not I was not that much well versed with everything.
Everyone has some starting point and they take baby steps, right? So that was 2019 for me. Someone like someone like me could have been doing it right away as well. So the community itself is highly collaborative and also it’s kind of small.
So that is something that I like about this space. And that is where collaboration comes into picture. And it’s the same way of saying or like your listeners would sound it like boring thing about it’s the same way of saying that how internet was evolved and all that blah, blah, blah.
But it’s very true. It’s very true. If you want to make this or if you want to say that there’s a vision of empowering users around the globe of this technology that is known as web three or blockchain, you need to be collaborative.
You can compete Yes, but rather than competing, you can compete with a couple of your competitors only. But rather than that, you shouldn’t see the whole industry as your competitor. If you see that it if you’ll see it that way, then I don’t think you anyway would be able to succeed.
And I guess that’s also one of the advises to the new entrepreneurs as well. So you need to be humble. At almost every point of time, you need to be having shown the grit and you you need to be like stay grounded because the very thing is when someone raises money right when someone is money so if in case I say Tarsha you have $10,000 in your wallet okay you have raised for something you think that you are on the top of the world and everyone else is a fucker right?
I wouldn’t think that but yeah like I understand what you’re saying that like a lot of people they seem to lose the plot as soon as they raise money because it seem to think that is perhaps the end goal which it is which isn’t the case because the end goal of running or starting any business is for it to make money and add value in users lives yes so yeah that’s where the young entrepreneurs fail at times as well and on top of that I think apart from that yeah the industry is rewarding you it’s similar way of saying that there’s a stock market you have bull runs and the bear runs similarly here they’re there as well there might be bull runs there might be bear runs you don’t know how long would it be right now if you’ll see in the 2024 the markets are doing good BTC is around $70,000 but yeah who knows if it falls down again or else it’ll go to 100k or 150k I’m not a financial advisor but yeah who knows so that’s where you should keep in mind that if you are having some vision then you should not like move around that vision and you should move around that vision and you should not move anything apart from that so that’s where I think the things should align and yeah
I guess that’s the that’s the only part I believe is rewarding and secondly it’s a general advice of hunting good folks or working with good folks if you are with good folks or there’s that saying right you become like you become the average of the five people you sit in a roundtable right so it’s the same way of saying that can you you know what are the resources that you utilize to stay ahead of the trends and innovations in such a you know rapidly evolving space I think we both know that the three basically ensures that you stay on your toes at any given point of time so are there any resources that you would like to recommend to our listeners yeah there so what I prefer is somewhat non-conventional and our listeners wouldn’t do that much of things
so I can recommend some newsletter a breakfast is there there’s a couple of other good newsletters as well which people can follow then most of my things comes from Twitter only so if you scroll Twitter you will figure out each and everything that is there it’s just that you need to make your feed look and this is you need to make sure that it is right it would the Twitter feed records from just apart from that so my strategy is simple if if I find something that’s interesting I myself is an micro cable as well so I tend to write I used to write I am writing now right now as well around AI around deep ends around other innovative technologies in web 3 and blockchain so I just then get over my whiteboard and figure things out do some researches and that’s the whole my dose of AI and deep in daily apart from that there are a couple of good sources which I have already showed deep in daily is also one of the great Twitter handles you guys could follow then a breakfast is there this is a newsletter then apart from that I’m not sure if I have read any other in in my initial days and after that like I have been having this attitude of doing research so I tend to do research as well and to do research it’s it’s nothing fancy you just just need to do a Google search and then you get in
and in and in and you get something out of it so right yeah you need to have that curiosity around anything that you really want to get into and perhaps do the end of research and as you said once you start doing the research there would be you know you’d be bombarded with a lot of information but you have to skim through and understand and perhaps once you’ve skimmed through all the fluff you will come across the you know better resources and you can deep dive there so that’s good advice good recommendations we’ll be sure to link them up in the description now you know coming back to cluster protocol what are the upcoming developments or announcements that you know we can expect from you guys and are there any bigger milestones that you know you’re looking forward to in yes yes so basically we are super excited for our product launch as well so we are looking to launch our product as we move towards the main net in the coming months so with the very first thing that would be there is an intent based crypto wallet so
it’s a wallet which is built by the users and for the users so you can consider it as a an AI wallet which is similar to MetaMask but it’s way easier to use than MetaMask everything that you can do over MetaMask it can be done over wallet in simple English so say if you want to send me $100 okay so what you can do is firstly so there’s an option of saving the contact there so you’ll add my say ERC20 address in so that wallet is EVM compatible so all the EVM chains you can transact upon so what you’ll do is you will send you’ll save my contact first of all of saying that over this to save this ERC20 address as Githart or YG then after that it’s one click send and you just type okay send $100 over Polygon to YG and it would be sent but like there would be a confirmation after that it will be sent so this is something that this is just the one feature of it you can do swaps you can do bridges off ramp on ramp and there are a couple of other AI features as well token sniping is there a powerful sniping portfolio recommendations and there are a lot of things that we that wallet will come over so that would be the very first release on our cluster model arena apart from that we are as I already told you that we are looking to have a GPP marketplace like as well so up next it would be that then as as we are in infra so we are building our own L3 on Arbitrum’s orbit so be so that is currently being tested in our labs in house over DevNet and it would be we would be shooting it towards the test net super soon so I guess yeah these are the three big milestones or you can say the announcements that people can look out for on top of that yeah as like we are also looking to have our own token that is CP so we looking to have the token generation event of that token as well super soon wonderful so these are all a wonderful milestones that are coming up is there any timeline for any of these releases that our listeners can look forward to the wallet could be live within next so most of them most of the updates that I have shared you would be live and running within next two months wonderful what are the kind of partners that you’re looking for you know we talked about how collaboration is key in web 3 what are the kind of you know protocols or collaborations you’re looking at as just a protocol skills yes so basically we are highly collaborative in nature as I already quoted and the partners the core partners that we are looking at is the actual core builders of AI like if we can leverage some tech to make our infra better we are we are like more than happy to take assistance or to assist them off as well in terms of making the whole ecosystem better and not just that okay so if in case say Tarsha you own some some AI project or some you are an AI founder where you are doing something that our infra could leverage or let’s say you are you have built an AI agent that is way far way advanced than the humanity okay so we would be more than happy to collaborate with you to host you of you to host your models off on our arena or maybe we can figure out many more as you know technical synergies over that and our core belief is to make sure that the advancement is happening in this ecosystem and cluster would be at the forefront of it and no and it’s not just any other AI or deep in project that people should look out for all right yeah so all the listeners out there who think that you know you might be a good fit and you’re a builder then please do get in touch with a cluster protocol and what would be perhaps the best way for people to get involved and get in touch with you they can hit me a DM over telegram or Twitter my handle is deep in daddy DEP and D a double D Y or else if there’s some proposal that you want to give to cluster protocol you guys can connect over our telegram chat or you can hit a DM over Twitter so yeah these would be the best ways for us like for me like if you want to directly get connected with me you can hit me a DM if there’s a proposal for cluster you can hit cluster or DM as well over Twitter or in the telegram chat so I guess yeah these would be the best ways to do that all right awesome so can you now perhaps you know I’m coming I’m basically running out of time and there are some more questions that I had but I think I would stick to two questions so one would be what would be your take on this particular bull run and you know how how would cluster protocol be shaping this particular bull run and the next cycles as well yeah so my take on this bull run is so I have seen a couple of other bull runs as well so the very thing as I’m a little bit more deep into research any of the previous happenings or you can say those technical analysis stuff is not happening right now right so right now as well there’s this meme coin saga where most of the money is most of the users money be it retail or whatsoever the thing is is there in the meme coins the actual retail so if you’ll see the buying power or the actual power of buying any token forget about CP or cluster protocol of any token comes from the retail rate and the current scenario looks like like you you might have seen multiple many many cycles of meme coins so there was something where people suggested or people predicted that okay after like the previous meme coin a rush there would be a settle off and then we would move towards upwards but that didn’t happen there’s again a meme coin rush right so any of those technical indicators are not working at the moment and I myself is not a very big fan of technical analysis rather I believe in I believe more in fundamental and sentiment analysis but yeah combining three of them would give you like better results either either ways so my take on this is pretty simple you should and as a founder my take is even more simpler then I just want to make sure that cluster is at the forefront of this bullrun because if this bullrun is dominated by AI and deep end then we would be liking that cluster would lead that thing off and though it’s not an any financial advice or something it’s just that we aim to build for the people and we have an actual good token utility as well so that’s why I think that our token would also perform well apart from that there are multiple factors which affect the token which includes maybe you guys might be already knowing it about maybe say having good backers good KOLs then we are building good products out then and on top of all of this is the actual utility of the product that we are building so I believe these are my thoughts over that wonderful so now you know I have to ask the one question that I ask everybody who comes on the show and you have in part answered it by giving advice to entrepreneurs but if you had to say give advice to perhaps people who are not yet building in web 3 or are not utilizing web 3 technologies what would be your advice to them for them to start living on blockchain truly first of all be a keen listener and be keen to learn more or be a curious one in the room to explore things out it’s a non-conventional thing which one follows and so it’s similar to having like if you want to build in web 3 or blockchain then it’s more of you can say kind of a risk that you are taking at any stage of time at any point of time just like how to do it while making a startup right in this web 2 industry so you need to be curious you need to be at your foot trends change within seconds within like flickering of your eyes and when within flickers it changes so you need to be on your foot you need to be versatile you need to ship you need to think you need to make sure that the community that you are building is and first of all yeah that there’s another thing that you should make sure it’s community is king if in case you have a solid community for your project or for your protocol or for your whatever you name your startup to be in web 3 then you the things would be easy for you because as I already told you most of these things around in the web 3 works around in collaborative community fashion so yeah you need to make sure that you are pleasing your community with the with the things that community actually want and it’s similar to saying that okay so and there are some basic norms right if you are building anything new you need to have a product market fit what people do is forget about the rugs which are which people are doing but but the core builders who are doing it if they are building a product that is not actually required first of all or secondly if it’s required it’s not a market fit you should work accordingly and you should get it or you should mold it according to the community’s feedback and not just stick with okay I have this vision or I have this thing I will build this that is the very that is a very least thing that could be what you said that could be that could be getting success out of it so yeah these are some of the advices I would say I would like to give to young entrepreneurs or maybe people who are looking to build their startups apart from that if someone wants to enter into the blockchain space so it’s very easy like nowadays like earlier it was held difficult right now though it’s very easy to on board in the victory space as it’s the bull run you will figure out many collaborative roles like ambassador roles and maybe community manager roles or maybe any role you would like to explore around you just get into it just figure out stuff you’ll find many stuff around and then you can take your journey ahead and within like next few years you’ll see yourself growing and building in this space right I think that’s very sounded advice get involved and build for finding a product market fit win for creating value I think you’ve covered users as well as builders you thought this has been a wonderful conversation I’m really glad that you could make the time to speak to us today thank you so much for making the time any last thoughts before we wrap this up no it was a very good conversation and I believe that the users or the listeners of your part that is living on blockchain by the way the name of the podcast is also good like I like that off a lot living on blockchain so they might have found this conversation valuable and there would be some actionable things which people would find out from this and can implement in their day-to-day lives or maybe they might have learned more about me or maybe cluster protocol or a industry in general or the advice is that we discussed earlier so yeah good things so thank you so much once again for making the time to speak to us today I’m sure that you know class is going to do fabulously well and you know our listeners would be more than happy to join in and see how we can contribute to your vision yeah yeah thank you very much.