Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of Living on Blockchain. Today we are speaking with Sarun. Sarun from Playbux.
He is a SocialFi and Gamify entrepreneur. Playbux is a platform that combines blockchain technology with immersive metaverse experiences. It allows users to socialize, play games, earn rewards through decentralized platforms.
The company positions itself as a pioneer in integrating SocialFi and Gamify to bridge the gap between social interactions and financial incentives. Sarun has been around for a while. His focus is on creating decentralized solutions that can redefine social and gaming experiences.
This was a very interesting conversation because of the kind of traction they have. It is not something that you see every day that a web3 platform having immense traction, a lot of users and a good use case basically in a sustainable way. They’ve been growing.
So I can’t wait for you guys to hear this. Let’s deep dive right in. Hi Sarun.
Thank you so much for taking out the time to speak to me today. How are you doing? Very good. Thank you.
Good afternoon, Tarusha. Am I pronouncing your name right? Yes, yes, you are. Okay, perfect.
Thank you so much for having me on Christmas Eve today. Not a problem at all. I’m just glad that we could both make the time.
So for our listeners, let’s put it in context. Can you tell us a little about yourself and your journey so far? Yes, sure. So my name is Sarun.
I’m the co-founder and CEO of Playbug. So we’re a web3 company. I’ve been in this space for about three years now and I’ve been in tech for over 30 years.
So right now, I’m 49 and I started my first company when I was 20. So I’ve been building for over 29 years and in tech, you know, mostly about over 20 years. And first company was way back around 1997.
And that was during the dot-com era, you know, like Yahoo, AltaVista, even before Google, Netscape, you know, way back, the OG, right? So I’ve been building online ever since. And because the evolution from web2, you know, to web 2.5 to web3 has been gradual. So I saw that web3 was going to be big about three years ago.
So we pivoted from a web2 like cashback company about two to three years ago into a full-on web3 company. And we got invested by people like Binance Labs, Tron, Certic, Anchor, and many, many big web3 projects. So here we are now, two years on.
We’ve rolled out Playbox to a lot of users. We have over like 10 million registered users and on-chain we’ve been number one on Binance BNB chain in the past, you know, number one in terms of users and activity, UAW. So I think we’ve done something okay, you know, on the right track and yeah, we just keep building and here we are.
That sounds amazing. So, you know, you guys were already working on cashback platform, like you mentioned, and you pivoted to web3 and now the platform is called Playbox. Can you tell me a little bit about what that platform did and what Playbox does and how it has perhaps incorporated the web3 element? Sure, sure.
So we were working on something, you know, similar to rebates. It’s a pure web2 cashback business. And then we saw the evolution of web3 and we thought, hey, you know, why don’t we get cashback as crypto from shopping? And we presented to Binance Labs and we got the initial funding.
So we spun off the company into a new company and we called it Playbox so that we can focus on not just cashback, you know, Playbox is a very open world, more focused on anything entertaining, you know, like shopping, gaming, movies, music, anything that’s entertainment, right? So shopping, we consider shopping, I mean, it’s not entertainment, but it could be fun for some people, but we put it in that realm. So that’s how we moved from the typical cashback business into a more of a gaming slash entertainment web3 business. Okay.
So it was like perhaps an organic evolution, you know, you saw web3 and thought that, okay, this can work better here and you incorporated elements of web3 and now you are getting basically crypto cashback for certain activities. Would that analogy be correct? Correct. Correct.
Yeah, totally. So, you know, we just didn’t want to focus on one thing because from my experience, we look at the user behavior, right? And users are very fickle. So they jump from one place to one place all the time.
And why not offer more than just shopping, right? When you’re on a platform, that’s the thought, you know, we just wanted to offer something like one place for everything for crypto related entertainment services. So when you think of Playbox, you can think of anything entertaining, you know, like gaming, movies, music, cashback, shopping, and anything in the future that we consider entertaining. Okay.
So how is your platform, say, different from a Lolli? Like the Lolli platform gives you a Bitcoin back or some Satoshi’s back whenever you’re making a transaction on certain websites. How would Playbox differentiate itself in platforms like that? Sure. As I mentioned, you know, because a lot of projects focus on one thing, which is always, you know, is good and to be focused.
But from what we’ve done in the past, we saw that, you know, users like to have a variety of selections when they visit one place. So, you know, they always get entertained and we can pivot from one service to another because, you know, in Web3, people are always moving. They’re always looking for the next best thing, the new thing, the new tech and the new service.
So that’s why I think from day one, we made it intentional to be very open, to be entertaining, to be just not just a one trick pony. So to compare ourselves to other projects, I think that’s the difference. We’re like 10 projects in one.
Basically, if you look at our website, we have watch to earn, we have walk to earn, we have play to earn, we have shop to earn. I mean, we have so many things going on and we’re about to launch a lot more. So that’s, that’s, I think, the key difference is that we have a variety of many, many entertaining services.
That’s wonderful. Like you said, that it’s a bunch of platforms rolled into one. So a user can come and, you know, utilize the platform fully without feeling like, as you said, that it’s a one trick pony.
So can you tell me a little about the partners that you have onboarded? Like how does this work for merchants? And then, you know, we can talk about how does, how does the flow look like for users? Sure. Sure. So the partners we have, you know, the, the, the global really large partners, merchants like Nike, Adidas in Asia, you know, because it’s geolocation.
So in Asia, we have things like Lazada, Timu, AliExpress, the more Asian flavors. But if you’re in America, you will see things like Nike, Adidas, you know, the, the American brands. So, so we have a team to onboard all of the brands.
We have over 10,000 merchants. So that’s quite a big variety of selection. Yeah.
So that’s, that’s how, you know, we onboard and that’s, that’s the general offerings that we have right now. Okay. And do you charge these much for onboarding or are you charging the customers? The, all, all the cashback is actually from affiliate income.
So it is, this is a similar to an affiliate business where the merchants have promotional budgets, right? And then these budgets, they pay us and then we pay back the customers as cashback and we keep a little bit as, as profit, but we give most of it back to our customers. Okay. Okay.
Now, now I understand. So for like, say somebody who’s new to Web3, how would you perhaps explain what the platform does and the possibilities that they can explore while coming onto your platform? And then perhaps maybe shed a little light on the user flow for, for, for the, for any user who’s coming on your website to utilize the platform. Karan, I can’t hear you anymore, if you’re saying anything.
That’s, that’s, that’s what we try to brief our UX, UI designers to make sure that everyone, new users can come in and totally understand Web3 without much knowledge. That’s why we have like a email onboarding. All you need is like a Google account and you don’t need any wallet until you do.
So you only need to learn about Web3 after you collect cashback or you collect prices like NFTs or USDT, because we have so many prices to give out. Like, and we, we give out a lot of USDT for lottery, NFTs, all these cool digital products, right? And then you don’t need to learn anything until you want to withdraw the money or the NFTs. And this is very good for education, right? Because most people, if they, if they come in and instantly you need to teach them about, I mean, you need to download Web3 wallet, learn about seed phase people, which is shy away from that because it’s very complicated and they get scared because everyone thinks everything is a scam now.
So we intentionally make it the funnel from the beginning as email, you know, Web2, and then you can learn everything. You can shop, you can play games with your email address. And then only after you win prices and when you want to withdraw these prices, do you need to learn about wallets and Web3 technology.
So this forces you to learn and understand what Web3 is. So you so that you can withdraw all of your money. Yeah.
Okay. Awesome. So, you know, obviously, you know, you’re trying to make something that is that would be familiar say to a Web3 user as well, and they can come on the platform and get like points and lottery tickets, like you mentioned, NFTs, et cetera.
And only when they have become to a point where they have to withdraw, do they need to actually engage in anything that is a little complicated to perhaps the untrained eye and to do with Web3. So that is, that is good. Can you, can you tell me a little more about the Playbucks token economy and how do you incentivize engagement and provide like tangible reward? You mentioned that the, the rewards that you’re giving to the users from the brand itself is appreciated.
But what about the token economy in itself? Sure. So we try to make Playbucks ecosystem focus on P-bucks, right? So P-bucks we are listed on Bybit, Gate, Warehouse, Mexi, many exchanges, KuCoin. And a lot of times when you play or you use our services like lottery, watch to earn, you win P-bucks or you need to stake P-bucks like stamp to earn or conquer to earn.
You need to, to, to, to stake kind of like stake or spend P-bucks to, to play. And mostly it’s a zero-sum game. We’ve designed everything to be self-sufficient.
So, you know, it, it, it’s not like in the past where a lot of projects mint new tokens endlessly. And then the, you know, the token becomes really low in value because you, you keep on minting new tokens, right? So our, uh, management decided that we should change the way we incentivize or gamify, um, the project, you know, the, the, it’s more like a play to win or play to earn, just redesign this play to win, play to earn system where we don’t mint new tokens. What we do is we, um, use the tokens, you know, the P-bucks tokens that the end users put in as prices.
So let’s say for lottery this season, uh, season number five, I think there was over like 1 million P-bucks staked. We use the 1 million bucks as prices, right? So we don’t, we don’t put up our own money. That’s good, right? Um, because it lowers the expense.
We use the, the user’s, um, funds, you know, or the P-bucks which they spend on it. And then the winners, because not everyone, everyone knows that when you buy lottery or when you play games, only the top people win. So it’s like a, a zero-sum game.
Yeah. Very interesting that, you know, you have mechanism in place to ensure economic stability, but, uh, you know, I wanted, that was going to be my next question that many token economists fail due to poor design. Uh, what kind of ensures the economic stability of your ecosystem? Sure.
That’s a very good question because, um, from the beginning, this, this was the first, one of the first things we tried to solve because we’re an entertainment platform. And one of the key attractions for, you know, back then we, we call it play to earn, X to earn. It was hot at the time.
Uh, there’s a lot of projects like X to earn up and coming or very big at the time. I’m not going to name names, but I think most of you guys, if you are in web three, you can remember them, right? But the, the problem is always the same that they have two token or they have one token and then they endlessly mint, uh, new tokens for winners and keep printing and printing and printing. It’s like endless printing of money.
And then in the end it inflates and it becomes a useless, right? It becomes like a monopoly money. So we didn’t want to do that. We didn’t want to go that way.
So what we designed was a zero sum mechanic where it’s like a lottery pool, basically like, you know, the mega jackpot or national lotteries, where we use the, the, the funds from, uh, people or the users to give back. So although there’s advantages and disadvantages, the advantage is that you never go broke, right? Because it’s, it’s self sufficient, but the, the disadvantage is, you know, uh, the prices might not be as big or exciting because, um, um, you know, in, in, in the bull run, when you mint new tokens or just give out free tokens, people love it because it, in the bull run, it, it, it’s got a lot of value, right? But then when you mint too much, that’s too much. It’s like a self-fulfilling prophecy, almost like a winner’s curse.
You know, the, the more people come to your platform, the more you mint, the less value your token becomes. So that’s the disadvantage of the endless minting of two tier token. But the advantage of our mechanic is that it, we don’t mint any, any new token.
So there’s no inflation, but the disadvantage is the prices might be limited to what people put in. Yeah. So that’s, but I think long-term this is much better because it’s a longer term play and investors, when they realize that there’s no way of going broke, I think this is a good, good mechanic.
Yeah. No, it sounds interesting. I think you do have those checks and balances.
I think a good economy or a new token economy needs to be designed on that particular premise that there needs to be good checks and balances. And I think the way you have designed your ecosystem is a step forward in that direction. Thank you.
So, uh, can you tell us a little, so I read a little about Playbox and, you know, my understanding is that you guys are doing something in the metaverse as well as incorporating AI in some way. So let’s start with the metaverse element. Can you describe that to me? And then we can perhaps talk about the AI.
Sure. Um, in the beginning, we, you know, about two years ago, if you remember, uh, meta or Facebook, uh, rebranded to metaverse and the word metaverse was a big, big thing. So back then we wanted to offer, um, the metaverse experience, but, um, over the two years, we saw that it was still too early, um, because the experience or the, the, the virtual experience is not, I don’t think it’s, it’s there yet.
So we kind of like, um, going hybrid, we, we blended the metaverse with web, you know, just a web, web, what do you call it? A web view format. So it’s, it’s, it’s like a semi metaverse right now. It’s like metaverse 2.5. I’m not sure what to call it.
So if you, for example, if you go to shop, uh, shop to, uh, in, in our website, uh, watch to earn in our website, um, all you need to do is click on a banner and then you go into first. So it’s not like, um, you’re always in the metaverse. You’re only in the metaverse.
You’re, you’re, you only walk into a room when you select the service. Uh, we did this because we tried exploring, we had like a test of full-on metaverse and then it becomes like a graveyard, right? Because only five or 10 people would be seen at the same time. And it doesn’t feel populated.
It doesn’t feel busy. It doesn’t feel lively. Um, so that experience, I think it’s got drawbacks and the graphics is still not, you know, it’s not like a real life yet, but I think in the very, very near future, it will be.
Um, so right now we’re still in the hybrid or hybrid metaverse mode where, um, it’s a web view in, in, in the beginning. But when you select a service like walk to earn, shop to earn or play to earn, then do you go into that room where it is more like 3d, 2.5d and walk around, um, in a, in a room. So that’s, that’s the metaverse, um, side.
You also have the AI. Can you shed a light on the, how you’ve integrated AI into, say, the human experience or is it more for the backend aspects of it? Sure. So the AI is more for the backend.
We, um, explored AI about five years ago. Um, it was the very beginning of AI, right? And we pitched it to the, the government and the government actually gave us a grant in Thailand to study AI. And at the time we call it, uh, uh, RRI, which is real intelligence.
So this AI is very particular is, is very smart because what it does is essentially it, it separates all the, um, what do you call it? All the data points into five boxes into five like buckets. So think of a human being. So what we did was very human, like we, we reverse, we try to reverse engineer the actual human mind, right? So the human mind, we believe consists of five things, which is, um, uh, it’s because I remember it in, in Sanskrit or Buddhist, uh, teaching it’s, it’s, it’s like, uh, touch, feel, smell, sight, sound, and overall, overall feeling.
Right. So of your experience. So we, let’s say, well, let’s say we try to tabulate a computer, like a, an Apple, if you touch it, it’s metallic.
So that’s one box. And then if you smell it, it’s got that Apple smell. I’m not sure how to describe it like a laptop smell.
And then if you, if you, the sound of it, if you, um, click it, uh, that’s like clicking sound. So that’s how we basically compartmentalize an object into five different categories. So we mapped out millions and millions of products and basically broke down all the products into five of these dimensions.
And then we overlay what, what you like. So let’s say you like things that’s black, or it smells like chocolate or touches like, you know, the touch is, um, soft. We know that you’re going to like, um, maybe chocolate that is soft, you know, something like that.
And as you, I think you’re, you’re, you’re starting to get the gist because every object, well, they have the same breakdown. So that’s what we’re doing on the backend. So we’re breaking down the understanding of your needs of what you like, you know, the shape, you like the sound, you like the smell, you like the touch you like, and we’re trying to offer you the best match of your personality.
So that’s, that’s, that’s our backend, you know, in a nutshell, uh, how our AI is doing the job. This is very, very interesting. And, uh, I can’t wait to, you know, try out the platform, uh, to see how this is kind of playing into action, uh, creating a platform like this.
I’m sure it must have come up, uh, you know, it could have thrown you a lot of technical as well as business challenges. Uh, can you, can you tell us a little about that? Sure. I mean, uh, building web two and web three, anything tech is, is super difficult, right? Because it’s tech and, um, it’s, it’s very, it’s, it’s very hard to make it self sustaining all the time to be, um, online 99.9% of the time.
And then, um, you know, to understand the human mind and how they use it. I think that’s the most difficult actually from, from my experience, you know, building is difficult, but what is even harder is actually trying to guess or trying to understand how the users will use your UX or UI. That’s so difficult.
You know, the, the, everyone can build, I mean, we see so many projects like 10,000 projects on web three, but it’s very difficult to get that million users to how to get million users to onboard and use your service and retain them. I think that’s so difficult, but, uh, I think we’ve done a good job, you know, combining our experience from web two to web three and combining our, all of our experience from, you know, e-commerce and everything else, trying to understand how to, I think it boils down to understanding the users really, really well. Um, yeah.
And, and I think we’ve, we’ve done it quite well because I say, as I mentioned earlier, Playbox, you know, we reached the number one, most used service on BNB chain, which is a good, a very good sign. We had over, I think 15 million registered account, which is quite a lot for web three. Um, so I think a lot of, a lot of times we web three people try to over engineer, right.
But we forget, um, about the user journey or the simplification of, of user onboarding. But, uh, here at Playbox, if you try our service, I think a lot of it is quite, uh, trivial. It’s quite simple to understand and it’s quite, uh, logical and it’s self-explanatory.
I forget how to pronounce it. So I think that’s, that’s what is actually the most difficult. It’s not the tech side.
The most difficult is actually trying to get the users to come and try it. And then even more difficult is to get them to come back and use it. Right.
And I would, uh, you know, more props to you guys that you’ve been able to like make this so popular and you’ve been able to get, resonate with the user in such a big way. And we’ll come on that in just a minute, but I would like to talk about, uh, the platform itself. Does it have any, um, limitations in terms of, uh, which user can use it geographically? Like, do you have any countrywide limitations or is it available globally? Right now it’s available globally.
Um, and that’s no, as long as you have an email address, you can, you can, yeah. Okay. And how do you address issues like market volatility, regulatory compliance while scaling the platform? Sure.
I mean, we, we just do advertising. Oh, I mean, we, we don’t market any in any, um, countries as, uh, considered, you know, great. Um, so we just focus on countries that open to web three and
Yeah. And that’s, that’s, that’s the way we do it. Right.
So we, we try to stay away from any regulation issues and, and, and in the past, you know, I think that’s worked out quite well. Okay. All right.
And now, you know, let’s, let’s talk a little about the community. You have such a huge user base. I’m sure that there are, you know, entrepreneurs will be listening and will want to know your secrets.
How did you get to this point? Like, what was that journey like? What did the marketing look like? How did you make, ensure that, you know, your community feels engaged enough and they are utilizing the platform enough so that it has risen on, on top of all of these charts. So, you know, can you tell us a little about that? Sure. As I mentioned, you know, we’re very serious about simplicity, user onboarding, UX, UI.
So I think that’s the beginning mindset, right? To make everything quite easy flowing to understand. And then when we first launched, we had huge promotions. I think it’s so important in initially when you launch to go big, to, to, to give something really big so that users say, cannot say no, right? So they always win or they, they always get something back without paying much just to try our service.
And what we did back then was we had like a lot of service where users can try for free, but then they can win really big prices. So a lot of people tried and they told their friends about it that, Hey, you know, that’s a service, it’s all free, but I want this and this, I want like free NFTs, I want like free prices. So we had a huge word of mouth going.
And a lot of people actually like told their friends, like friend, get friend. And it, it organically caught on and we were, you know, overwhelmed with, with the response. So I think the, the, the, the real key to success here is a combination of many, many things like having a good product and having a simple product to understand.
And also a strong, really strong promotional program, where users always feel like they’re winning. I think that’s very important. Ensuring that, you know, users are always winning.
I think that is that there’s a lot of wisdom in that one sentence. You’re creating something that is user facing, then ensuring that the user has a good time on the platform of solving a pain point. And in general feels good after using the platform would ensure that, you know, your platform is successful.
Exactly. So are there any partnerships or collaborations that you’d like to highlight? Sure. One of our key partnership is with IGE.
So the, the, one of the world’s largest is, is like the Netflix of Asia. We do watch to earn competitions with them where users, all they need to do is watch movies and the more movies they watch, the more they earn. So it’s a very simple process.
You know, they don’t need to do much, just watch movies and win. Yeah. So that’s it.
So the top, I think top hundred or top thousand people uses, they just win free prices. Yeah. Then, and it doesn’t cost them a penny.
Wow. That’s brilliant. Get paid for watching a movie.
Correct. I mean, you already, I think a lot of people spend countless hours on Netflix or YouTube anyhow. So why not spend it on our platform and also win prizes? Sounds like a win-win to me.
I think a lot more users, you know, would, would storm your platform and would want to watch movies and win prizes. I think this is something really wonderful. As, as you mentioned that, you know, this is not a one-trick pony, you know, it’s not just for shopping, but it’s like an entire entertainment ecosystem that you guys have created, that if you’re doing something, if you’re doing an action online, which is motivated by just, you know, out of the fear of boredom, perhaps, then, you know, you should do it on Playbus, because you guys are solving for that.
Sure. Sure. I mean, if you, if anyone’s interested in, you know, learning, exploring in web three, or just have some free time, I think our platform is the perfect place to come and just hang out, you know, just have some, have some fun and, and win, win, win some free prizes.
Yeah. Sounds very cool. So what is next for you guys? What is the next big milestone that you guys are looking forward to for Playbus? And then, you know, I would love for you to touch upon personally as well, like what is the next big milestone look for you professionally as well as personally? Sure.
As the Bull Run, you know, is entering, as we’re, we’re entering the core part of the Bull Run, you know, the hardcore upward only Bull Run, we have many, many products launching, you know, we we are very serious about gaming. So we have this game called Popbox coming. Okay.
It’s a very simple game where you use our NFT and then you just click, click, click. It’s like a click to win game. The more you click, the more you win, but you need some NFTs.
Well, you don’t need, but if you have NFTs like Playbox NFTs, you win more prices and you earn more points. So that’s launching next month in January. That should be a big, big game.
And then we have another huge game called Box Royale. So that’s similar to Clash Royale, but it’s a web three is a tower defense game. I think that’s, well, that’s one of our biggest game to date where users can fight each other and then you can win.
So you can compete to win your opponent’s funds. So it’s like a fun, fun way to play game against your friends and then take, take the money. So a lot of times you play, play with your friends, but it’s just, there’s no, there’s no rewards or there’s no skin in the game.
Right. But in web three, it’s all about incentives. You know, it’s all about a little risk.
So this game allows you to fight with your opponent or your friend, and then you can stake P-Bucks or you can stake USDT and the winner can walk away with your friend’s funds. So I think that game will be something fun. And the next thing, yeah, I think that’s, that, that’s going to be a huge product.
Hopefully. We invested a ton of money in that. And also we have another game called Rock Paper Scissors.
That’s, that’s, I think that’s going to be super addictive. Similar, similar to Bucks Royale. What you can do is basically just take, use your funds and fight your friend Rock Paper Scissors.
You can, you can put anything down like NFTs, USDT, P-Bucks, and then the winner of the Rock Paper Scissors can walk away with the pot, the prize pool. So super simple games coming up. Very fun, very risky, kind of like exciting, you know, similar to, it’s not like a casino, but it’s, it’s, it’s like a real life, real life, like a real life challenge, you know, where you play game and win real prices, right? Because right now you play a lot of games online or you play FIFA or you play all of these games, PUBG or Free Fire, but you don’t win real life prices.
But this one, that’s, I think Web3 allows you to do that. So that’s what we’re doing for the next 2025, yeah. In the year 2025, more focus on gaming with real, real life skin in the game.
Very interesting. These are sounding like highly addictive games. I think that games, either they have to be very, very complex or they have to be very simple for them to really land well with the users.
Yes. Hope so, hope so, hope. We, we hope that we’re building the right product for the right, right timing.
Yeah. Timing is important. I agree.
What role do you think SocialFi and GameFi will play in the mainstream adoption of blockchain technology? I mean, that’s huge. I mean, that’s why I think why we’re here, right? I mean, we’ve, we’ve been talking about this forever, you know, the, the million dollar adoption, you know, the next billion, but we’re yet to see it. You know, we’re, we’re seeing the same faces, you know, we’re, we’re, we’re seeing like the same pool of people, you know, in Web3, but that’s why we’re here.
You know, we’re, we’re trying to build something super simple, addictive, and I think incentivize. I mean, this is, I think probably one of the most important sectors in Web3, you know, gaming. Without gaming, I doubt that there’ll be mass adoption to be honest, because I find it hard to believe that users will jump right into Web3, let’s say DeFi, you know, staking on Athena or using wallets for swaps or anything that advanced, but gaming has that appeal or simplicity where you can invite friends, you can ask friends to come play and win something.
So I think gaming is, is the most important sector in the whole of Web3 to get the next billion users in without gaming or social five, they’re very close together, you know, social fine game. So without that, I don’t think industry can, can grow to where we believe it can. No, I think I agree.
I believe that, you know, gaming is one of the easier ways to get even the you know, the Web2 audience into Web3 because it is something that they’re used to and it’s addictive and you know, it doesn’t require you to take say seemingly serious financial decisions. So I think it is, it is a good way to get folks on board, but in general, because, you know, you mentioned how we are now going getting into the hot part of the bull run, perhaps, can you, can you tell us a little about your outlook on the Web3 ecosystem in general? Like how do you feel this playing out in, in this particular bull run? What are the kind of sectors, niches you think would do well? What should builders keep in mind? Sure. I think this is going to be the best bull run ever, right? Because of the new president Trump.
And he’s clearly said that he’s going to make, you know, America the crypto hub of the world. He’s backing DeFi, you know, he’s got his own fund. He’s got his own NFT collection.
He’s the craziest like crypto president in the whole world. I think he, he’s like the number one marketing, what do you call it? Mascot for crypto, right? We, we got the American, imagine saying this 10 years ago, people will imagine this. Yeah.
Nobody, nobody. I think nobody could imagine that the next president of America is one. I think he won because of this, you know, because of the, the crypto pitch.
And I think it was the turning point where, you know, it, it really changed the dynamic of his election. And I think this, this upcoming bull run is, is going to be defined by all of his policies for crypto, you know, being more relaxed in the past and definitely all the builders is loving it. As you can see, we’ve already hit a hundred K just weeks after his election.
And then on the 20th we’re 26 days away from him taking the office. So I think that’s like the next big, big up, you know, the next big leg up on the 20th around. So, and afterwards, you know, when, when he starts making all the policies, you know, he, he claimed that he will use Bitcoin as a reserve.
I think if that is true, not only America will do it. I think everyone, you know, we, we, we saw CC tweeting that, uh, Saudi Arabia has got 40 billion in Bitcoin, right. They bought up.
So it’s going to be a race by Bitcoin for this bull run. I think for anyone who’s in crypto, this is the most exciting time. I think this is going to be the biggest bull run in history.
Right. I think the only, the only thing I worry is is the geopolitics or all the, all the little, well, not little, you know, all the wars, that’s really brewing right now, everywhere in the world, Middle East, Russia. I mean, this is crazy.
I just hope that Trump can, can put, um, the fires out, you know, for, and it doesn’t escalate into something more. So I think that’s the only thing I am fearful about for the next couple of years. Yeah.
I think, uh, everybody is feeling fairly bullish, uh, especially after, uh, the president, like, uh, you know, he, he’s shared, um, his, his ideas and his vision, and especially, uh, the fact that he wants to build a Bitcoin reserve. All of these are very positive signs for the industry. And like you said, you know, apart from the geopolitical events, which are very unfortunate, that, um, there is little that will throw off this particular party, of course.
Yeah, exactly. So I think without anything, you know, crazy going on in the world, I think we’re going to have the best ever bull run. Let’s hope.
Yeah. I think every time, uh, you know, the cycle repeats, it gets better and better because there are more people who have, uh, who can see the advantages that decentralized technologies bring to the table. They see real use cases that are wonderful founders that are building, uh, you know, every, in every cycle.
And, uh, a lot of those products, they stand the test time, which means a greater adoption. So I think the market is maturing, you know, every cycle. For sure.
For sure. I mean, we, uh, as builders, we try to, as, as, you know, I mean, I can’t say much about the other areas, but we’re in game fire, right? We’re in the entertainment. Um, we’re trying, we’re trying our best, our very, very best, um, you know, to, to adopt, you know, to, to bring in the new people to do our part.
But I believe we have so many great projects, right. This season, um, you know, real, real useful projects that really can pay off to, for example, you know, staking, and you get like 12 to 15% on Athena and things like that. I think that’s, that’s the, the, the little bit more challenging for the new users, but these are, you know, we bring in the people and then they learn, and then they can move up to the more difficult tasks.
So there’s so many great projects out there that’s ready for, for the next billion. Yeah, I agree totally. Uh, can you give some advice perhaps, and maybe point out a few resources as well for, um, entrepreneurs who are building in the space and also for, for folks who are looking to build in the game space? Sure.
I mean, I think it’s becoming to, to, to be super open, it’s becoming harder and harder, right. Um, to, to build, because, um, it is, the industry is moving forward quickly and, um, we’re seeing bigger and bigger players and it’s, it’s always more difficult as the industry’s more, it’s more mature because there’s incumbents, but that’s, I think we’re still a little bit early. Um, so I think one of the key lessons that I learned is to, to, to simplify things, right.
And as I mentioned, tech is, tech is difficult, you know, tech seems difficult, but, um, it doesn’t have to be. Users don’t really care about what they don’t see. They only care about what they see and experience, right? So no matter how good your tech is, but if you cannot convince or if you cannot communicate to the users that, um, your tech is friendly, your tech is usable, you know, it’s simple use your product.
So I think a lot of times web three people, you know, we get caught up by, you know, TPS, or we get caught up by all the technical stuff to make it advanced, advanced, advanced, but we forget about UX, UI, user adoption, promotions, you know, the, the, the typical, uh, onboarding or marketing or retention stuff. Um, and today, you know, these days I still try new products and I’m really, I’m really, what do you call it? Um, I’m stuck to be honest by sometimes how I cannot even understand how to use a product as a, as a, as a season, like a builder, you know, I go onto new website, new services, and there’s no instruction. There’s no, no, no tutorials, no guide.
Um, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s quite mind blowing sometimes how we forget all of the most important, uh, part. So my, my advice is, um, always try to test your product with, um, a team of people who, who are least, what do you call it? Least educated about web three. And if they use your service well, without much complaints, I think you have a winner, even though if you’re, if, if your product is not superior in terms of technology, technological advancement, but I think, um, you know, it’s, it’s something a lot of, a lot of teams or a lot of projects overlook.
Yeah. I think that is important. Like onboarding, making sure that the user feels comfortable.
Those are very foundational things that we kind of, as you mentioned earlier, we tend to over-engineer our products and we tend to forget that that is an aspect that we, we must spend considerable amounts of time on. Exactly, exactly. So I think if, if, if we all spend as much time on engineering as the same, you know, amount of time on UX, UI and onboarding, I think, um, it’s, we, we, we have a lot of, a lot more users.
Yeah. I agree. I think that is definitely correct.
Uh, so this has been a very wonderful conversation, Karan, and you know, I just saw the time and we’re almost running out of time, but I would be remiss if I didn’t ask you this one question that I ask everybody who comes to the show. You are somebody who made quite a leap from web two to web three. You had a thriving cashback business in web two and you made that leap to web three.
Uh, if somebody is facing a similar dilemma, what would be your suggestions to them so that they can truly start living on block? Yeah. I mean, it’s a, it’s a very difficult decision, right? I mean, that’s so much risk. Uh, that’s so much, um, questions.
I mean, what if, do I do it? Do I do, do it not? Um, it’s, it’s a different business, you know, web two and web three. I mean, although people think of business is best business, but web two and web three is very, the, the, the target demographics is very different. Web three, uh, users is very different.
So if you’re contemplating about switching or pivoting or jumping from web two to web three, I think you would seriously have to consider if your business is set or if you, if your business, if your current business is right for web three, because web three audience, I think is a little bit more riskier. I mean, risk, what do you call it? Uh, they have a higher risk appetite and, um, they prefer different kinds of products. So they, they, they, they like things as, you know, as I, we, we talked earlier, uh, technologically advanced.
Um, but at the same time, how do you balance between building a product that’s very technical, but then again, very easy to use. So if you’re contemplating, I would suggest that you study if your product is right for web three in terms of demographics and target audience that, Hey, I mean, um, is it necessary? Right? Because a lot of times it’s, it’s, it’s web three is not really needed, but it’s nice to have. So for, for anyone who’s contemplating, I was just suggest, you know, you studying market research, doing a little bit of market research to see if your product does it really need, uh, you know, blockchain and does it really fit with the web three users? So if it does fit with both, I think, you know, for example, clearly defies, you know, you, you, you clearly fit, but if it, if it’s something simpler like e-commerce and, you know, like, um, I’m not sure because cashback, you know, you can give crypto, but if it’s, if it’s just pure e-commerce like shopping, um, I’m not sure if it’s, if it’s worthy or if it’s worthwhile switching from, from just a typical storefront, you know, e-commerce storefront to web three.
So yeah, those are just some of the generic general answers I have. Yeah. I think it is important.
You know, you shouldn’t just jump on the bandwagon of building a website for the sake of doing it. I think that it’s important to have that self-awareness, whether, you know, we’re still going to actually elevate, um, the product or, uh, the, the, you know, user interface, uh, in any way, and only then go about and start building health. But, uh, having said that, if, if you are jumping the band on, on this particular bandwagon, then yes, do your own research and figure out perhaps the best possible way of going about doing it in a manner that doesn’t seem very, um, very like in your face, perhaps to the user.
And, uh, you know, you are also making that leap with all the information and in your, uh, you know, in your armor and you’re making a very conscious, uh, informed choice. And this is exactly, exactly. Okay.
Thank you so much. Once again, for making the time to speak to me today, any parting words before we wrap this up? No, I just like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and happy new year. I hope everyone stays safe and thank you so much for having, uh, us on the show Playbugs and yeah, have a very happy Christmas.
Thank you everyone. Thank you so much, Darren. Yes, I was wishing everybody, uh, happy holidays, Merry Christmas if you’re celebrating and a great new year ahead.
Uh, thank you so much, Darren, once again, for making the time to speak to me today. Okay. Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.