Transcription Episode 72

Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of Living on Blockchain. Today we are speaking to Pavel. Pavel is the co-founder of Wirex.

Wirex is one of the oldest services providing a card instrument against your crypto holdings and so that you can basically spend it on a day-to-day basis. They are coming up with a very exciting non-custodial card in the first quarter of 2024. So we spoke a little about that, a little about how maneuvering these crypto waters, offering services that are traditional in sense can be a bit of an uphill battle and how Wirex is successfully managing to break those barriers and offer their services consistently over the years.

So this was a very, very interesting conversation, especially from somebody who’s as seasoned as he is. So I can’t wait for you guys to hear this. Let’s deep dive right in.

Hi Pavel, thank you so much for making the time to speak to me today. How are you doing? Well I’m doing great and thank you for having me today. It’s my absolute honor to have you here on the show.

Can you tell us a little about yourself and how you got into Web3? Yes, well my name is Pavel Matveev. I’m co-founder, co-CEO of Wirex and I started my journey in I think in 2014, so a long time ago. It’s actually the time when we founded Wirex and the idea was that we were trying to combine cryptocurrency and cryptocurrency wallets with something people are familiar with, like a debit card or something physical or something you can put in your pocket.

And it’s how we came up with the idea of the first Bitcoin debit card. So in 2014, it was only one cryptocurrency, it was Bitcoin. And this is actually how we started our journey with my co-founder.

But prior to that, I spent around 12 years working on trading desks in different investment banks. I worked in Morgan Stanley, Barclays Capital, Credit Suisse and two French banks as well, Société Générale and BNP Paribas. And the main reason for me to enter this exciting crypto world was that I was really excited, still excited, about cryptocurrency, blockchain.

And back in the days it was a very niche market, very geeky, but very exciting and very interesting. And it’s great to see how the market and industry evolves. Absolutely.

I think a lot of people who were working earlier in the finance space, when they come across decentralized technology and they come across the Bitcoin white paper, there’s pretty much no looking back for them. They want to get more involved because they see perhaps an improved way of doing things. Absolutely.

I think it’s… Well, I had a couple of reasons why I joined this crypto revolution. So one, technology itself. I think we have with blockchain and cryptocurrency, we have lifetime opportunity, to be honest, to influence, to develop finance in a decentralized way.

And this we haven’t done before. So the technology itself was very fascinating. And I think the second point for me personally was that I kind of reached the milestone in my professional finance trading career, and I was looking for a new venture.

And I think it was just a coincidence that I started reading more about blockchain, Bitcoin, and then I thought, OK, that’s what I want to do. Yeah, absolutely. I think this has been like a journey for a lot of founders that I’ve spoken to actually very recently.

Given your background in software development and IT management for major banks, what were the kind of key challenges that you saw in the traditional financial system that made you believe in a solution like Wirex and why you thought it was perhaps necessary? I think there are a lot of… So finance is a very broad term, and I think there are a lot of areas you can change, optimize, make it more decentralized. With Wirex particularly, we were looking into everyday use, how actually customers can control their own money. Because before blockchain, you 100% depend on your bank or your financial provider, and something happens to the bank, well, that’s unfortunate, but there is nothing you can do.

And I think we were looking at this particular problem, ownership of your assets. But we also wanted to make it practical because, yeah, you can create your wallet, you can put Bitcoin where it’s your keys, it’s your money, fine. But if you can’t really use Bitcoin in everyday life, then there’s not really a practical angle to that.

So that’s why we were thinking about this problem. Okay, how you can keep this ownership of your assets and all the freedom of money movement, you can send it to everyone everywhere in the world with no time and with little fee, but how can we add this practicality of using your digital assets in everyday life? And that’s how we basically came up with the idea of merging Bitcoin wallet and debit card. Basically, Bitcoin wallet you have is freedom and all the benefits of blockchain technology, but cards itself allow you to spend with digital assets in 50 million merchants in more than 200 countries.

Absolutely. I think that is pretty much a no-brainer of a solution that you want people to be able to use it in their day-to-day life. And that is the only way that we can get to greater adoption.

But considering, and a lot of other providers have tried creating a solution pretty much like Varex, though you guys were one of the oldest providers perhaps. How did you really manage to circumvent or get around the compliance aspect in different jurisdictions? Well, that’s a very good question. So you’re right in saying that Varex is quite an old company.

So Wirex was actually the world’s first company who came up with this product, Bitcoin debit card. And so Wirex product and Wirex app are available right now in multiple regions. So it’s UK, Europe, Asia Pacific and United States.

It’s fair to say that compliance requirements, while there are similarities across different regions when it comes to KYC, you know, peps and sanction screening and other things. But different countries have their own requirements or different regulators have, you know, different requirements. FCA has its own requirement, very similar to MIS in Singapore, but there are small things which are different.

And there’s not really kind of a way around it, to be honest. And I think we put compliance and working closely with regulators as part of our business strategy. So we license regulated in multiple countries.

There’s no real way around it. So the only way is to meet this expectation and have a dialogue with regulators. And it’s very time consuming, to be honest.

So we’ve been doing this business for almost nine years. And but it’s very time consuming, resource consuming. And it’s not something you can just get, you know, in one month.

You need to work towards that. Yeah, absolutely. I understand this.

And that is why I asked you, because I have been on the other side. I have, you know, in one of my earlier ventures, we were trying to basically tokenize real world assets like gold and silver. And that was very challenging, because every jurisdiction that you want to perhaps put the service in or, you know, let users use your services when you’re dealing with banking entities and, you know, you’re dealing with custodians and insurers.

And then, you know, you add this extra layer of obviously, you know, Web3, which they’re already kind of a little wary of. It becomes a very tedious process. It’s very resource consuming as well, not just in terms of money, but also in terms of time.

So that is why it is not everybody who can perhaps, you know, do and offer a solution like this. And I think that is perhaps your biggest move that, you know, you guys have the right experience and you’ve been around for a very long time and you’ve been able to successfully sustain your business. Yes, you’re absolutely right.

And there is kind of, two sides to being the first, obviously, if you, you know, are working on some of the products, like we are on Bitcoin Debit Card or you were working with tokenized assets. It’s always good to be first, but with this kind of being the first comes with challenges. You’ve got this, you know, first move advantage, which is great, but first move advantage doesn’t last long.

But you actually need to find a way, especially when it comes to working with this kind of unregulated area and regulated area. So you actually need to be the first company, the first person who come up with solution. So that’s kind of very challenging and resource intensive.

And I think it’s also fair to say that for people on companies who started working on tokenization, for example, three, four years ago, I think it was a bit too early because regulators were not ready, the infrastructure was not ready. And it’s challenging, right? When you have a great idea, you know, tokenizing assets, but you know, you can’t really implement it. But I think now in the industry, we’re reaching the point where we have infrastructure and it’s never ending path for infrastructure.

It will improve over time and, you know, getting more mature with more services. But what we have right now is a huge leap compared to what we had three, four years ago. What we have right now in the web-free, in tokenization space, in tokenization of real world asset space, it’s good.

It’s working. But we also have a bit of clarity when it comes to regulation. You know, FCA, MECA in Europe, MIS, Japan, other countries, they now understand, okay, this is actually asset class we can’t ignore.

So that’s why we see more regulation and more clarity. I know it’s quite common in crypto industry to complain about lack of regulatory clarity, but that’s actually not the case. I think we now see more clarity and more rules for assets, digital assets, money movements, and tokenized assets.

Absolutely. I think, you know, when we were trying to do it, it was a little early and there was no infrastructure, like you rightly said. But I’m glad that, you know, the policy makers are catching up and they usually catch up to technology a little later, but it’s all good.

I think we’re on the right path. So just for our listeners, can you tell us which jurisdictions are, you know, your services available and how can they sort of sign up and be a part of this revolution that you guys are paving the way for? So our main app, Wirex app and card is available in UK, Europe, and six countries in Asia Pacific. So it’s Singapore, Hong Kong, Australia, New Zealand, Philippines, Vietnam.

It’s also available in United States. The app itself, the app and ability to buy and sell crypto available in many more countries, but the cards actually limited UK, Europe, Asia Pacific, and United States right now. Okay.

All right. Awesome. And what is like the next big milestone that you guys are looking at related? Well, that’s a very good question.

And let me maybe explain it based on what we’ve seen so far in the industry. So industry moves in cycles. There is every three, four years, there is a cycle and cycle basically there are two parts to it.

There is a hype, right? You know, it’s a bubble like situation and this bubble pops and then there is a second leg of a hype of people called the bear market or crypto winter. What we see right now is actually beginning of the next cycle. So we understand that.

So it’s why we built our business strategy based on the fact that there will be a new cycle. This is the most exciting. This is the most exciting time in the industry to be in the crypto industry during the next bull market.

So the bull market itself is a great opportunity for us and we’re planning to maximize this opportunity for Wirex. We are obviously developing our flagship product. It’s a Wirex app, the world winning card product, but we also are planning to launch a payment focused app chain.

We call it WPay, but this app chain basically will have non-custodial debit cards built into that and other protocols or DAOs or smart contracts will be able to natively integrate with this app chain. So this is a quite a big milestone innovation we’re planning to launch in Q1 next year. Wow, that does sound big.

So now I have two follow-up questions. What exactly do you mean by non-custodial debit cards and the app chain that you’re referring to, is this going to be like a roll-up? Yes, so our app chain is based on Polygon SDK stack. So basically it’s a zero knowledge stack, very fast finality time and in my opinion also ZK stack is superior compared to Optimism stack.

So ZK and Optimism are probably two main options for app chains or for scaling Ethereum right now. But for our use case, for financial fintech use case, ZK just works better and I think what Polygon built with SDK is just perfect and it’s perfectly suitable for what we’re building. So this payment app chain, so the idea of payment app chain is that every customer will have let’s say a wallet, a balance.

That’s basically implementation of account abstraction, but every customer has a wallet they will be able to control. And we will plug in our card infrastructure to this app chain and the way it will work that customers will be able to authorize Wirex to debit your account. So basically every time you use your card, we will be able based on your authorization to debit your account in order to authorize card transaction.

But at any point of time, you as a customer, you have full ownership of your wallets, of your money. So the main kind of a selling point or main advantages compared to classic debit cards or crypto debit cards is that in this app chain, you control the funds all the time. You don’t have any counterparty risk and something happens with Wirex, you control the funds and you can always take them out or you can always remove this authorization.

So in our opinion, that’s kind of the next wave of this crypto payment infrastructure. And I think in my personal opinion, it’s something which will contribute to the next bull run. Absolutely.

That sounds beautiful. That sounds like the next big thing and more power to you guys to be able to launch this. And I would absolutely love to try it out once it does go live as you mentioned in Q1 next year.

So as a thought leader, you kind of already touched upon this, but I would like to perhaps ask you again as a thought leader, you’re at the intersection of finance and tech. What kind of emerging trends, apart from the ones that you’ve already talked about, are exciting for you? And how are you perhaps positioning Wirex to leverage those trends as well, especially in fintech? Yeah. So there are multiple trends.

There are a big trend for scaling Ethereum and I think there’s app chains or chains using Optimism Stack or ZK Stack. I think it’s one of the more technical trends. But one of the kind of the main trends from our perspective is that a lot of businesses, and I’ll expand on this in a second, but a lot of businesses moving on chain one way or another.

So we see more traditional businesses, let’s call them Web2 businesses moving on chain. Companies like NewBank, which is the largest neobank in Brazil, Latin America now, they launched the loyalty program based on Polygon. Companies like Grab in Southeast Asia, they integrated the non-custodial wallet for NFTs, for like a ticketing system.

But we also see that centralized platforms are moving on chain. Obviously, Coinbase is probably the largest example when they launched their own chain. We have Kraken, who is considering launching their own L2 chain.

We have companies like DYDX, obviously Wirex planning to launch an app chain. So a lot of companies moving on chain one way or another. And also there is a kind of a trend which is happening in parallel.

So the trend is that the wallet as a service, as the area, is developing very fast. Companies like Fireblock, Coinbase, Circle, Trust Wallet, they now offer their wallet as a service. And what it means, so on one side we see that businesses and trading activities moving on chain, but on the other side we see that it’s getting so easy to create a wallet.

So we will have more non-custodial wallets. And I think these two parts, they will merge together. And what we call it is, not we call it, but it’s how people call it in the industry, is basically a merging of on-chain economy.

So what it means, that means a lot of what we’re doing right now in centralized way will move on chain. And we see this as a great opportunity. So it’s why we’re also launching this non-custodial debit cards.

And that’s why we’re focusing a lot of this on-chain activity. But I think a merge or rise of on-chain economy is one of the trends we’re betting on this cycle. That is super interesting.

I think, you know, the way you’ve kind of put it is even more interesting because only a few days back, I think I was talking to my founder and we were discussing about how microtransactions are going to be very big because that’s just how the user is going to become more involved perhaps in Web3 and there can be far more adoption. So I think we’re pretty aligned with the two, what you’re bullish on and what we feel is going to be really big in the coming months as well. So this kind of leads me to the sort of the next question because, you know, you guys are doing such a wonderful job with creating this bridge between folks in Web3 and creating usability, you know, for more adoption in crypto and in Web3.

But there is still a long way to go for mass adoption to happen. I would love to know your take about what needs to be overcome, like what do we need to overcome as an ecosystem to get, you know, widespread acceptance and adoption in Web3? That’s a very good question. So my view is that there is not really a silver bullet for mass adoption.

I think getting mass adoption or any adoption, it’s a process. And with every cycle, market expands, right? So if you compare, you know, ICO boom of 2017 to the DeFi summer of, you know, two years ago, with every cycle, market getting bigger. And every cycle, everyone’s talking, OK, are we hitting mass adoption? Will we hit mass adoption this time? There’s no silver bullet for mass adoption.

It’s a process. And I think, you know, over time we will get, you know, mass adoption. But I think the exciting part about crypto, with every cycle, market expands, I don’t know, three times, ten times.

So I think it’s just a question of time or, you know, how many cycles we need till we hit mass adoption. Right. I think it’s a process.

I don’t think it’s going to happen just, you know, because of one simple thing changing. But if you had to perhaps put your finger on one or two things that definitely need to change with the industry as it stands currently for us to be able to perhaps move the needle in adoption, what would they be? So we need more practical use cases. I think having DeFi protocols for DeFi users, it’s cool, but it’s still niche market, right? It’s crypto native users.

So we need, in order to get mass adoption, we need to solve problems for a lot of customers. So that’s why we need a bit more practical use cases. I think blockchain payments or microtransactions could be one of these use cases.

Because, look, payments, it’s part of our everyday life. There are different types of payments, like everyday payments, cross-border payments, micropayments. But payments, every person in the world, one way or another, pay for something, for goods or services.

So if we can find a practical, useful case for blockchain payments, well, it can be a trigger for mass adoption. Right. Yeah, I think I totally agree with you.

Now, you know, in terms of security, let’s touch upon that perhaps. Because the world of cryptocurrency is very dynamic and balancing innovation and security is always crucial. And I think of somebody, you know, with your kind of experience and repute, I don’t think that you need to play dice with it at all.

But how do you navigate this particular challenge to provide cutting-edge services by ensuring the safety of their user assets and their funds? That’s a key question in the industry, security and safety of assets. And it’s quite interesting that the industry is not young anymore, but there are still a lot of security issues happening in DeFi or even, you know, centralized platforms like Huobi, for example, that were hacked recently. So the thing with security is you always need to monitor your setup.

You always need to be up-to-date, up-to-speed with new technologies. In order to do that, you need a team of experts for focusing on security. You also need to work with reliable partners who can provide the base layer of infrastructure.

It can be custody or it can be blockchain infrastructure. It depends on what kind of project you’re building or product you’re building. And the third part is you need external view.

It can be an auditor or it can be, you know, a security external expert who can review your setup. But again, there is no really silver bullet and, you know, hackers or bad actors, they’re always trying to exploit what you’ve built. And the best way to protect yourself is just to be ahead of them.

With, you know, security trends, with monitoring, with focusing on security. But you’re absolutely right. Security is extremely, extremely important in the industry because if you have a security breach, it can be the end of your business.

So it’s better to focus on the security and safety from the very beginning. Absolutely. I think that is where a lot of younger entrepreneurs or first-time entrepreneurs, they kind of try to cut costs, you know, when it comes to security or they kind of put it off, that they’ll get it done later.

Because let’s be honest, engaging with security audit firms or any kind of a product that would help you with this or a consultant, it can be very expensive, but it’s still nothing when, you know, compared to perhaps something if it goes wrong and the kind of cost that that would come at. Yeah, that’s true. So security is something you shouldn’t ignore.

You shouldn’t ignore. And I know it might be not the most exciting thing when you build a new product, but if you’re dealing with people’s money, I think security should be part of your business strategy. Absolutely.

It has to be paramount. I think that is actually one of the factors that creates perhaps more adoption, because there are more happy people, you know, happy users in this space. And then they would be eager for others to be able to reap the benefits as well.

But if you are somebody who’s cutting corners when it comes to security and then, you know, there is a bit of a, you know, any kind of an F-up that happens, then, you know, it’s bad for the industry as a whole and not just your platform. Absolutely agree. So in terms of now, you know, because we’re talking about users, could you share perhaps a memorable, you know, feedback or success story from a Vibex user that kind of illustrates the positive impact that your platform has had on their financial experience? You guys have been around for so long.

I’m sure there have been many examples that you can give them. Well, that’s an interesting question. Over the years, I think we’ve seen good and bad feedback.

Obviously, our product is a retail product and you always have happy customers and unhappy customers. But it’s difficult to pick up one of the feedbacks. But I think what always resonates with our team and what kind of keep us going is that when somebody is sharing some excitement, then they were able to, I don’t know, buy a drink or a gift to their partner, for example, with a Wirex card or somebody was able to pay for something very valuable to them with digital assets.

Also, I think it’s quite interesting to see that people who try to use crypto debit cards for the first time and they realize, okay, you can actually use these digital assets in everyday life. And I think this, you know, is very motivating for us. Absolutely.

I think there’s nothing more beautiful. First of all, I think there’s nothing more lovely than the art of creation and the satisfaction that you can derive from creating something that works beautifully and that’s solving a real problem. But I think greater than that is when somebody other than you or your loved ones, you see them using that platform.

That gives you immense satisfaction and it makes all the sweat, hard work, blood and tears seem worth it. Absolutely. Absolutely.

So when, you know, when it again comes to users and, you know, you have such a retail product and because we do have an adoption problem in Web3, how have you over the years, you know, seen the consumer trends, first of all, and the consumer behavior change? That is one. And a second is how have you been able to successfully acquire these users? What would be your advice to say somebody who’s creating a retail product in Web3 and, you know, on how to acquire users in the correct way? I think the first trend we see is market growing, right? We’re talking about mass adoption. We haven’t reached mass adoption yet, but market month over month, year over year, it’s growing.

I think like five years ago or four years ago, we talked about kind of niche, small market. But I think right now the market is actually quite big. If you take into consideration crypto native customers or crypto curious customers, best audience is actually quite big.

And, you know, every cycle expands this audience and rising Bitcoin price is the best marketing tool for any crypto product. In terms of customer acquisition, I think, well, that’s kind of the easy and not easy advice, but focus on solving the problem. If you identify the problem, you solve the problem from retail customers, it will be easier to acquire customers.

If you’re trying to sell something which customers don’t really need or you’re not really solving the problem or the solution or traditional solution they have better than what you offer, then it will be difficult to scale and acquire customers. But solving the problem or focusing on solving the problem, I think is the key. Right.

Absolutely. I think, you know, any kind of, any new entrepreneur, anybody who’s just building a platform, be it in Web3 or otherwise, I think the entire idea should be around being able to solve a real problem for your end user. Because if you’re able to do that, then your solution itself becomes very sticky and they’ll keep coming back to it.

So moving on to some fun questions now, I would love to ask you one or two of these questions which are a little on the lighter side of things. So imagine if you were having, say, coffee with Satoshi Nakamoto at a crypto themed cafe, what would your conversation be about and who would pick up the tab? You’re asking about a historical figure? No, so I’m asking about Satoshi Nakamoto, if you were like sitting with him and having a conversation, if you knew who he was or she was or a group of people and what do you think you would talk to them about? That’s a very good, interesting question. So I think everyone just wants to understand who Satoshi Nakamoto is.

So probably, you know, focus on who they are, she or he and, you know, about their past, about the experience, what they did before inventing Bitcoin. Yeah, but that’s kind of, you know, fascinating question. I think with Satoshi Nakamoto, there is a lot of mystery about this person.

So I would probably focus on, you know, knowing a bit more about history and the person rather than some Bitcoin and technical aspects. Yeah, it would be interesting, right? Like what was the kind of thought process behind creating something so beautiful and then what was perhaps the reason or what exactly motivated them or what was their reason to, you know, kind of fade into oblivion, so to say. And yeah, it would make for a really interesting conversation.

I think even I would perhaps want to know more on the personal side of things rather than, you know, talking about Bitcoin. Yeah, absolutely agree. Yeah, I think it’s, you know, Satoshi is a very fascinating, mysterious figure.

Yeah, absolutely. Okay, one more. So if you could use perhaps a, you know, time machine, which historical event or era would you like to visit and how do you think the presence of cryptocurrencies would have influenced that time? Well, the question about Satoshi was a difficult one, but that’s even more difficult.

That’s a good question. I think, you know, in finance and economy there is, well, there are so many events in the history. I would probably think about when the United States decided to move away from gold-backed, not stablecoin, but the gold standard.

Yeah, gold standard. I think it was an interesting decision. And I think what we’ve seen right now, it’s a long tale of this big decision, but I think it was a very big decision, not just for United States, for entire world.

And yeah, I think it influenced a lot what was happening in an economy. And I think it might even, you know, influence the fact that people wanted something decentralized, the new type of currency. So if I pick up one of the historical events, that’s probably one of them.

Yeah, no, I think that would be very interesting, right? It would be an interesting time to go back and introduce perhaps this concept when gold standard was being abandoned. This is a very good answer. And I think it’s a question that kind of makes you think a little bit.

So that’s why I like putting in these questions apart from talking about the product as well. And you took it like a sport, so well done to you. I would, you know, just while talking to you, I kind of, it struck me that I haven’t really asked you if Wirex itself as a platform is planning to build any kind of utility applications apart from your main product to increase adoption and, you know, on your rollout? That’s a very good question.

So Wirex as a company, so if we don’t take into consideration our main product, we focus a lot on education. So we have different education program where we’re trying to, you know, provide learning materials for customers or for just people who are not Wirex customers. So we can learn about Bitcoin, cryptocurrencies, you know, different DeFi trends, different DeFi terms.

So that’s one area. But we also have another initiative, which we started actually four years ago. It’s called Women in Crypto.

So cryptocurrency is very male dominated industry and kind of similar to finance, to be honest. And this initiative, Women in Crypto, we do it every year. And we recognize ladies who is working in the crypto industry.

So it’s a process, but if you Google it, Women in Crypto, Wirex, I think that’s one of the initiatives I’m very proud of. And yeah, like every year we have this kind of a format where we’re trying to recognize and reward, you know, a woman who is working in the crypto industry in different products. And everyone can actually nominate their candidate every year.

But yeah. Wow, that’s very, very interesting. I have actually checked that out personally myself, because being a woman in this space, like you said, there are very few women, you know, females who are in finance.

It’s interesting to sort of see that kind of initiative that you guys have taken. So Pavel, now that kind of takes me to the last question. And this is something that I ask everyone who kind of comes on the show.

Because you’ve been on the other side of the peering glass, you know, you were in Web 2.0, you worked for traditional finance. If somebody was in a similar position like you perhaps, and they were also peering in and trying to decide whether they want to move and work in Web 3.0 or build in Web 3.0, what would be your top two or three suggestions for them to start living on blockchain? So my first suggestion is it’s a good, it’s very good timing right now to enter the cryptocurrency world as a user or as an entrepreneur. It’s really up to you.

But again, as I mentioned before, I think we’re at the beginning of the next cycle. And cycles, they don’t happen overnight. It’s a process.

But I think what we see right now is the beginning of a cycle. And that’s kind of the most exciting time. So my first advice, just do it now, because it’s the right timing as a user, as an entrepreneur, as a, I don’t know, as a researcher, whoever you want to be, it’s a good timing.

And maybe the second point is try to do your own research. There are a lot of cryptocurrencies and there are a lot of people who promise you whatever you dreamed about, you will find this on the internet. But just do your own research when it comes to investing or participating or choosing, you know, secure solution for your digital assets.

It’s like DeFi protocol or wallet. Just keep this in mind. Do your own research.

There are a lot of solutions for a lot of people with a lot of promises. They’re not always right and not always correct, but they’re not always true. So join now and do your own research and you will be all right.

Absolutely. I think no two words have been spoken. It’s a good time to get into Web3 considering we are looking at perhaps markets becoming a little better as well.

And I do think though for builders, it doesn’t matter what the market condition is, but it does create perhaps a perception in the potential user’s head. So it’s a good time to build. And obviously, as always, do your own research before you get into Web3.

Like any other industry, you need to know what you’re getting into before you get your hands dirty and be aware of the risks. So being self-aware is very, very important before you get into anything. So thank you so much for taking out the time to speak to us.

This was a really wonderful, insightful conversation. I have been a big fan of Wirex since you guys started. You’ve been around for a long time.

I’ve also been around since nearly 2011-12 when I started initially mining. And it’s been a pleasure to witness your journey so far. And I’m so grateful that you could make the time to come and speak to me today.

Before we wrap this up, any parting thoughts? Well, first of all, thank you for inviting me. And it was a pleasure talking to you. And yeah, just wanted to maybe say once again that it’s a great time to be in the industry.

It’s a very fascinating industry. Talking about the crypto and blockchain technology, it changes very fast. And if you’re considering joining the crypto industry, it’s the right moment.

Absolutely. I couldn’t agree more. And I think Pavel and I completely would like to encourage you guys to perhaps look at Web3 because I truly think that you owe it to yourself to look at this technology and understand how it’s going to change the world.

You know, Pavel, we almost sound like cult leaders trying to ask people and members to join. But honestly, I think the technology itself is worth the time that you’ll put in researching and trying to see if you can find a niche here. So I completely agree.

And thank you once again, Pavel, for taking up the time. Yeah. Thank you for inviting me.

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