Transcription Episode 88

Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of Living on Blockchain. Today we are speaking to Ganesh. He’s the COO at IBA.

He’s had a very interesting career trajectory so far. He was part of the media industry, the entertainment industry, and now he’s helping IBA with setting up of various verticals of different niches, different sectors, and how blockchain technology can actually revolutionize each of these sectors. So this is a very, very interesting conversation.

Once again, I think I said this for all these conversations, but I’m just really lucky that I get to talk to all of these very intelligent people and exchange ideas with them. Coming back to this conversation, this particular conversation was interesting on two accounts, because A, this is somebody who has vast experience working in the media and entertainment industry, and now they have come to realize the importance and, you know, just how relevant Web3 technology is and how it’s going to become even more relevant in the coming days for every sector beyond finance. And the other were just his insights and tidbits on how the IBA is trying to create more content and evangelize folks in India around Web3 technology.

So I can’t wait for you guys to hear this. Let’s dive right in. Hi Ganesh, how are you doing today? Hi Tarusha, I’m doing good.

Always good. Brilliant, good to know. So for our listeners, can you tell us a little about yourself and you know how you got into Web3, you started your journey with media and the entertainment industry.

And now you’re deeply involved in emerging technology. So we’d love to know a little about your journey as well as your background. Thanks for this question, Tarusha.

My journey has always been transformation. When I started my career, I started my career in late 82. That’s when the animation industry was moving away from pen and paper to mouse and keyboard.

Similarly, the film industry, from optical effects to visual effects, from tons and tons of reels to hard disk, videotapes got into hard disk. Same in the newsroom system, the pen and paper replaced by keyboard and so on. I mean, there have been so much of transformation that I’ve been seeing.

So whatever transformation that is still going on in terms of transitioning from Web2 to Web3 and all those things, this is not new to me. I’m used to this transformation. That’s lovely to know.

So you know, but you’ve made quite a leap, right? You know, you were associated initially with media and entertainment. Can you tell us a little about that? And how did you actually get into Web3? That could be a very interesting topic to sort of cover because I think I’m always fascinated by how people come across Web3 and why they kind of stay there. So, as I told you earlier, I’ve been seeing only transformation and all through my 42 years of media and entertainment space.

Having said that, and when I took retirement from active employment, and then moved from Tier 2 to Tier 3 or Tier 1 to Tier 2 city. That’s when I thought, you know, I should give back to the community, whatever this community gave me. And fortunately for me, I happened to come across India Blockchain Alliance and they were very keen in taking me in so that I can look at how to transform this media and entertainment industry.

Since we are in the creator industry and media and entertainment creates tons and tons of material, be it news, be it entertainment, be it infotainment, be it games, all are part of creator economy. Right, absolutely. That is true, you know, and how do you, okay, first, I would love to know from you, because you know, you’ve worked on both the sides, what are the kind of key differences between working in the traditional media industry and navigating the evolving landscape of web 3 technologies and blockchain-based innovations? See, like any other industry, media industry is also hard pressed for revenues.

Right. The ad revenues are drying slowly, and people want to innovate in terms of how they can achieve their revenues for growth. That’s how the blockchain and the emerging technologies are trying to help them in terms of, one, how they can make the readers for a newspaper, how they can incentivize the readers while they are subscribing for their e-paper and stuff like that in terms of monetization and royalty programs and giving them something additional so that they see the value of subscribing to a newspaper.

And similarly, with the film industry also, you know, how they can incentivize people to come to the theaters, because slowly, the theaters are becoming an experience zone. I mean, no longer go to a theater, buy a ticket, and then sit and watch the movie and come. I mean, when you go, you go and experience something.

So, all these are helping the emerging technology to help them on increasing their revenue, increasing their user base, and at the same time, maintaining whatever they are doing. Right, absolutely. So, as a part of the IBA, like, you know, can you tell us a little bit about your role there? So, I will, I will quickly touch upon in a second that what IBA is all about.

India Blockchain Alliance, it is a not for profit organization. We don’t, we don’t make any revenue in this organization, we only evangelize, and we only popularize the emerging technologies here by advising corporates and government on adopting these technologies. Okay.

So, I came into IBA as Director, Media and Entertainment and Digital Technologies. And after a few months, they felt that I should become Chief Operating Officer, and they made me Chief Operating Officer. After taking over as Chief Operating Officer, I’ve created multiple verticals inside the India Blockchain Alliance.

Okay. Starting from automotive and EV, agriculture, the media, I mean, since the media is in my blood, I broke media industry into multiple verticals. For example, print as one vertical, broadcast as one vertical, film as one vertical, music as one, sports as one, like that, you know, there are several verticals that has been created, closer to 21 verticals have been created inside IBA.

And we have brought in honorary advisors to head all these verticals. People who are entrenched in that industry. For example, if you take fashion, we have a person from the fashion industry with that particular vertical.

Similarly, for healthcare, for agriculture, for each and every vertical, we have a person who has put in at least 25 years of experience in that particular industry, and who wants to contribute back to the industry using emerging technologies. Great. Okay.

So, you know, you’re bringing in people who are experts and making them head these verticals. And primarily, you would describe IBA’s role as a role bearer when it’s trying to perhaps create more, you know, create the right kind of perception about this technology with the populace and generally evangelize? Yes. That’s exactly what we are doing.

So what are the kind of initiatives, you know, IBA has taken to basically meet its goal of evangelizing and making sure that the right kind of information is being pushed out so that more people can understand this technology? The initiatives are all coming from each and every vertical head. You know, in terms of, if you take fashion, for example, how blockchain can enable fashion industry, how AI is playing a big role in the fashion industry, how the customer experience is transforming the retail via AR, VR, virtual reality, and all those kind of stuff. And this is common across the industry.

I mean, you take healthcare, right? You know, how the EMRs can be blockchain enabled so that nobody can tap into any of those records. So each and every industry, because we have those industry experts, they come from the, from that industry, and they are giving us, this is the kind of problems that this industry is facing. And then we brainstorm and say that whether AI is helping them, blockchain will help them like that.

So we kind of build the offerings that can be taken to that particular industry and popularize those offerings so that people can adapt to those offerings. And because we are coming from a not-for-profit organization, and because we don’t do any billing, people do tend to believe us that yes, here is somebody who has not come to make a sale to me. Right, right.

Yeah. They’re genuinely basically trying to perhaps push out the right information because there’s no other incentive. Yes.

And also what we are doing is, you know, we are creating regional chapters. Okay. You know, we have North, West, East and South.

We are, we are trying to create chapters and chapters in Chennai, chapters in Coimbatore, like that city wise chapters we are creating to evangelize the blockchain and emerging technologies, where we are building communities who are like minded people who come into this community, share their knowledge, share their experience, share their problems, so that the community can address this. And also education is one of the main areas for us where we are creating multiple educational activities, which can be taken to schools, colleges, and even for upskilling and reskilling market. Right.

That is, that is wonderful. I think, ultimately, the owners just fall on the builders for the perception to be able to change in the populace regarding this technology. And I strongly believe that you guys are perhaps championing this in a massive way.

So more power to you, folks. Is there a way that, you know, entrepreneurs or builders can actually join this organization? Because from what my understanding is, it’s a nonprofit and voluntary organization to be a part of? Yes, we, we are building a membership community. There is slightly going to be some change in who are the members they want to be part of this India Blockchain Alliance.

Okay, take some scrutiny before taking anybody. And, and then, you know, we are taking them as members. And we, we’re kind of evaluating how this member can add value to the blockchain alliance, so that the community gets benefited by that.

Absolutely, it would only make sense. See, I do think that opening up membership for everybody, you will get the crowd, but perhaps not the kind of right value that you would want the alliance to have. So some amount of vetting is definitely good.

And we’ll watch out, you know, the website and the space to basically there are any listeners who do want to join, they can perhaps get those details from your website and your social handles, correct? Yeah, so currently, the website is going is in the process of revamping. Much about the membership there, but they can write to us and we will communicate back with them. Until everything goes on to the website.

Awesome, brilliant. So they can find the email on the website? Yes. All right.

Okay. So that’s lovely for our listeners who do perhaps think that they have something to contribute to the IBA, please do write in to Vinesh and his team, and they will revert with the perhaps next requisite next steps. This is very, very exciting.

And because you are again, somebody who’s a part of the IBA, and you have all of these folks, who are very experienced in their fields, obviously, you’re creating a very powerful organization. And once again, more power to you guys. But I really want to sort of ask you about the regulatory environment, because I do think that, you know, I’m sure that you guys are doing some work in that space as well.

The rapidly changing regulatory environment is a fact, I think in Web3, all over the world. Can you provide perhaps some insights into the current status of the legality of cryptocurrencies in India and what impact this has had on the adoption of blockchain technology and the number of businesses working in this space? Government is very keen to promote blockchain and make people adopt blockchain. Because blockchain is a trust that you’re building.

It is something which nobody can break it and it gives absolute transparency. You will be surprised. There was one full day event that happened during the COVID time.

Commission of India was exploring along with IIT Madras on how the elections can be blockchain enabled. So that is the level. That is very big, right? Yeah, it is.

I mean, so as IBA, we have done few work at the corporate level, where corporate voting has been blockchain enabled. But Election Commission of India thinking of blockchain is something really, really great for us. That’s a level of the commitment that the government does in terms of blockchain.

And see, this is one big perception that everybody has got when you say blockchain, it is cryptocurrency. It is not. Yeah, exactly.

Blockchain doesn’t have anything to do with cryptocurrency. Initially it was, but blockchain has moved much beyond cryptocurrencies. And regulatory in that term, yes, the government of India is trying to regulate it as much as possible.

Cryptos are still not a legal tender in India. But outside India, there is no issues at all. I mean, Dubai government has adapted to cryptos and a lot of other governments in Europe and US have adapted to cryptos.

Right, absolutely. So, you know, my question, the follow up question perhaps would be that, you know, the government seems according to very pro blockchain technology. And obviously, you know, we, as people who are building within the space, do understand that blockchain technology is so much more than just cryptocurrencies.

And it’s all, it sounds all hunky dory and good. Yet, there is, you know, a lot of taxation that is being perhaps levied upon crypto in general. Do you think that this has an impact on the way perhaps builders perceive the country as well as a favorable or an unfavorable jurisdiction to be building in? No, not at all.

As I told you earlier, blockchain and cryptos are two different activities. Right? The taxation, there is no separate taxation that if you are a blockchain enabled, you pay more tax, there is nothing like that. Yeah, that is that is absolutely there.

But, you know, there has been a lot of noise on Twitter and on all of these social networks, wherein the high taxation is something that you know, people keep talking about again and again, what is your personal opinion about around taxation and the level of taxation that is being levied upon on traders? So, I mean, we are used to taxation right from the time when the king was ruling. Yeah, that’s true. So the taxes are common, whether it is a king or a democratic government, taxes are there.

I mean, if some country has to develop their infrastructure, they need money. Right. And the taxation in some areas, it is quite high, especially in the eSports and all those kind of stuff.

That is where people are cribbing. But again, I think government wants to have control on the kind of fake eSport company which are there in the market and which is trying to con people and all those kind of stuff. But otherwise, I don’t think there is any taxation, which is high because you are using emerging technologies or blockchain.

Right, right. Yeah, I think taxation has become part and parcel of the Indian life in any which way. And what you’re saying is very pertinent that, you know, the taxes are being levied on traders and utilizing the technology itself to build solutions does not really require any kind of a huge sort of an investment or any kind of perhaps a payment that needs to be made intermittently.

So those are absolutely valid points. And now, because we are talking so much about the tech itself, I would love to get your opinion on, you know, how you think this technology can perhaps change so many sectors and beyond finance, perhaps, such as healthcare, logistics, supply chain management, identity verification, which are called decentralized identities that are being created. What is your opinion there? And can you give us some examples of some use cases that you might have come across that you think are very interesting? So this is a very interesting question.

So in terms of supply chain, you know, there is a protocol that we have created called a seal of trust. Okay, what it does is it tracks a product from the manufacturing to the retailer, whether it is a genuine product or not. Okay.

So we did one proof of concept for one of the governments, state governments, in terms of they wanted to reduce the fake liquor bottles that are floating around. We created a proof of concept for them from the manufacturing till it gets delivered to the retail point. There is a QR code, which is blockchain enabled, which keeps tracking where it came from, where all it went, and how it came to the retail space.

This is there everywhere because, you know, the fake market is huge, the pilferage is huge. And because of this, the revenue loss is huge for any of the brands. And people are showing a lot of interest in adapting to this so that they can leak their revenue loss, number one.

And number two, they will know that what I am getting is a genuine product and where it is coming from. This is going on even in the construction industry, where they want to know where the cement is coming from, where the steel is coming from. And this is cutting across everywhere, you know, like even in agriculture, farm to plate kind of a thing, where it got produced and where all it is going and where it is coming.

So this is getting adapted gradually in each and every industry. Right. So, you know, this is very interesting, because I think, like you said, the general perception is that blockchain technology is cryptocurrency and they just look at finance, you know, as a sector where it is trying to perhaps create a disruption.

But like you mentioned, this technology obviously has the power and we know it to really change the way certain sectors work. And, you know, you mentioned, like you mentioned, the efficacy lies in the fact that there is actually a proof of concept that you have as well to make sure that these products are not taken supply chain management. Are there, you know, standalone solutions that IBA is working on as well? Or do you usually perhaps take startups under your wings who are building such solutions? So this protocol, which I talked about, the seal of trust, that is a protocol which can be applied to any industry.

Okay. And this protocol, any of our members can use it and they can develop solutions around that and on top of that. Okay.

And this is an open source protocol that is available? It’s not, it’s not open source. Okay. Also, you know, coming to the film industry, I did a panel discussion last year where how blockchain is enabling cross-border co-production kind of an activity.

You know, by adapting to blockchain, it gives trust to both the countries that yes, whatever transaction that is happening is happening in a fair and transparent manner. So even in the film industry, the blockchain is getting adapted more and more. Great.

So yeah, like you mentioned that this is something that can be used across various sectors, and that is what makes this technology very, very powerful. What are the kind of more exciting developments or use cases that you’ve seen within Web3? And as your personal opinion, you feel that these use cases are really going to shape the future of the technology and society? There is one very interesting stuff that we’re almost done with that. Is that how to make people, we’re kind of creating a framework again.

It’s called as purpose token. Okay. I have done my purpose of helping somebody today.

I have done my purpose of being clean. So I’m going to a movie theater. I’ve ordered a Coke and I drank and I don’t leave it in the seat and go.

Right. I take that the glass or a cup or the bottle, whatever it is, and then put it in back in the dustbin. I take a picture and I share it.

They get some tokens for that. For being a good human being. Right.

Okay. So this is something which we are creating and we are pretty excited about this. And we’re also working very closely with the film fraternity.

You know, don’t smoke, don’t drink kind of art that comes in the beginning. You know, be purposeful. Right.

So we are trying to create this and we are trying to popularize this as much as possible so that there is a purposeful living with people around the world. Great. So isn’t this like a lot akin to what, and this might be a very bad analogy, because that is an extreme example.

Like, you know, China has these, I think they also have a mechanism in which they kind of, you know, reward people with good civic sense and behavior. And this is something that they’re trying out, I think, in a few cities. And anybody who’s perhaps, you know, has some traffic violations in their name, and some other examples of their said score that has been associated with them is affected negatively in that case.

Is this something similar? Or am I getting this entirely wrong? I won’t say it is similar. But I mean, see, it’s happening in bits and pieces. Okay.

But it is not, see, if I’m saying that, you know, you are a good citizen. Right. You prove to be a good citizen, you will get rewarded for that.

Right. So whatever may be the reward, that is where you start feeling like purposeful. I have done something.

And because this is available. I mean, it’ll take time, it’s not going to happen tomorrow. Because it’s for multiple communities and in multivarious places, you might be changing me tomorrow.

Oh, my God, I should also do this. And I should have also done this. This we are extending it to even the stray animals.

Okay. Which is plenty in the in our country. Right.

So I see a dog which is suffering in the road and like I take the dog and go give it in Red Cross. So I take a picture and this is what I have done. So I get rewarded out of this.

So I have helped the dog. At the same time, I’m getting rewarded for that. Okay.

All right. This is this is very, very interesting as a concept, I think. And we would love to, obviously, as you said, this is a work in progress.

And when do you expect like a prototype to be ready around this? We are trying to do some, a couple of POCs. So you should be hearing about this very soon. All right.

Okay. That sounds wonderful. I think this can be a great initiative.

And it can really perhaps as you said, this is re-emphasize purposeful living. And I think we all need a little bit of that in our lives. See, more than the old guy like me, the younger generation are much more purposeful.

I think it is an individual to individual thing. I don’t know if it is an age thing. Because you know, you are somebody who’s come up with such a wonderful idea and you keep calling yourself old.

I think that that that doesn’t that’s not really relevant. And moreover, I think age is just the number in people’s head. You know, you can be as old and as young as perhaps you feel mentally and physically.

I only I agree with whatever you’re saying. And I only I don’t want to quote any names here, because it’s to a political party. Heard him saying that the age is just a number.

And you’re older and it is in your thinking. And not in your age. So if you’re thinking is young and you’re young.

Right, yeah. So what I meant was that the today’s kids are much more conscious about environment and all those things and they are driving their parents to be more purposeful. That’s what I see.

Right. I think I completely agree. I think there is a lot to do with the next generation and how they kind of introduce their parents to new ideas and new concepts.

And as long as people are open, you know, to entertaining those new ideas, growth never stops. So now, you know, moving past that, and I would love to know from you because, you know, we’ve heard a lot about Metaverse in the last few years. And it was the absolute next big thing, or it was started as the next big thing, at least a year, year and a half back.

And obviously, now, you know, then AI kind of came into the picture. And that became the next big thing. So you are somebody who’s deeply involved in both tech as well as entertainment.

What are your thoughts on the potential of the Metaverse? And how do you think it stands to transform the way in which we interact with digital content? Metaverse adoption is growing day by day. Right. And it is growing, not in any one particular industry, it is growing in all the industries.

Fashion, there are a lot of these brands which are already there in Metaverse. You take Gucci, you take Louis Vuitton, all of them are there. Adidas is there, Nike is there.

And this is not getting restricted to brands alone. Say, for example, I’ll give you one example in the media industry. There is one of my connects, you know, was telling that whenever there is a film fair that happens, you know, like people ask me for passes and it’s very difficult to get passes.

So film fair is planning to move to Metaverse also. It will be an additional one there. The culture and heritage is looking at moving into Metaverse.

So we are trying to promote virtual museums, virtual temples, you know, where I can’t go to Vaishno Devi very that easily, but I can go to Devi in Metaverse. Right, right. Yeah, the Metaverse is getting adopted day by day into multiple industries.

Construction industry is looking at Metaverse very seriously. So it is not restricted to any particular industry. That is one of the reasons inside Blockchain Alliance, we have Metaverse as a horizontal and not as a vertical.

Because this horizontal will be catering to all the verticals. And that’s how the adaptation of Metaverse into multiple industries will happen. Right.

Yeah, that is absolutely true. I think, yeah, you’ve mentioned how Metaverse is making waves and finding a lot of use cases, the real estate as well. And that we have seen, like I’ve seen it in places, obviously here, as well as in the Middle East, I think a lot of these real estate companies are trying to utilize Metaverse to drive in more sales and give their potential users a more cohesive experience.

Also, this is going to come into the manufacturing industry also. And also in the service industry, you know, how do you assemble and disassemble a machine? Metaverse can help them there. Right.

Yeah, I think the use cases are phenomenal. There’s an incredible number of use cases. And it’s very important that people start thinking beyond the finance sector when it comes to blockchain technology, because like we’ve mentioned throughout this conversation, I do believe that this technology has the potential to really revolutionize a lot of sectors other than finance.

What we are also trying to promote is VR journalism. Right. Newspapers and Metaverse.

Wow, that is, I think that that is so important, especially in this day and age of disinformation and India ranking very high in the amount of disinformation that is being propagated here. That should be a very, very useful tool. And I think that will become like a norm in the coming years, that any kind of, especially with the advent of AI and so much information being pumped out and content being created, I think it will become something of a norm that any information or pertinent pieces of information that are being pushed out, they would have to be backed by some authenticity and credibility would have to be lent by a blockchain.

Yes. Also, in terms of, you know, the fact checking, we are working on how AI can enable fact checking, so that it can. That’s wonderful.

I think it is. It’s very important. I think this is, as technology keeps growing, that there are some checks and balances in place.

And also, you know, the news industry is trying to use AI. So there is one news item that has been published. And how AI can create different versions of that news item to cater to different people.

Oh, right. Yeah, that is, again, very pertinent. And this gives you a lot to sort of think about.

But again, I’m glad that you know, you guys are looking at these very pertinent use cases, and you are trying to figure out what is perhaps the best way forward, just introducing these ideas, evangelizing about this technology, I think, is a very big leap forward. But, you know, we’ve been talking about the opportunities quite a bit. And we are sadly running a little bit out of time.

But I will, I would be amiss if I didn’t ask you about the challenges that you see for this technology, especially in India, and for the builders. There is no challenge at all. People are willing to accept.

Okay. People are willing to adapt. People are willing to transform, provided you guide them properly.

Right. And what does that entail? Sorry? So what does that entail? Like, you know, you mentioned that people are ready to change and adapt, if you know you’re guiding them properly. What would, how would you define guiding people properly? So, for example, one of the companies that we were talking, because we were not for profit organization, he was open in saying that, I don’t understand what Web3 is, you explain what Web3 is, I’ll adapt to Web3.

Right. You tell me how it is going to change my life, how it is going to make things easier for me, we will adapt to Web3. So what I’m coming to say is that there is no mindset issue with people, as long as you guide them in the right direction.

Right. Yes. As long as you know, perhaps they’re getting the right kind of information and being supported with examples of how they can perhaps do this or implement this in this technology in the vertical that they are working, they would be open to, as you mentioned, they are open to adopting and changing.

So I will give you one small example about the publishing industry. So what we did was we said, you know, you are a book publisher, and I like your book, but I don’t want to buy the entire book, I want to buy only one chapter. Hmm.

Blockchain allows you to do that. Instead of me buying a book for 100 rupees, I buy a chapter for 10 rupees, because that is what I’m going to read. And that is what I’m interested in.

Right. Yeah, that is a very interesting way to put it. And I think, you know, this conversation has all been about these wonderful insights and something to really, it gives you something to think about.

And I think that is what makes the best of conversations. Now, on a little bit of a lighter note, you know, if you could have dinner with any prominent figure, perhaps in Web3, who would it be? And why? Raj Kapoor. Right.

Yeah. So Raj Kapoor, he was the founder, right? And we’ve had him on the show. Yeah, I know.

He’s the founder of IVA. And he’s a serious evangelist of Web3 technology. And he’s the one who very firmly believes that if you tell the right thing to right people, people will take you seriously.

Right, right. Right. I think he, that conversation was very, pretty amazing as well.

And the kind of enthusiasm that he has for blockchain technology and the way he kind of puts it in a simple way that it’s very easy to digest, it would make for a fabulous dinner meeting for you guys, for sure. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so, you know, we are nearly out of time.

And I would, again, this is something that I ask everybody who comes on the show, because, you know, you’ve been on the other side in Web2, and you’ve seen technology evolving with time. And now you’re in Web3. If you had to give suggestions or some kind of advice for builders or, you know, any kind of user perhaps, who is looking at Web3 with a bit of skepticism, what would be your suggestions to them, for them to be able to start living on blockchain?

One, believe in yourself. And two, know when this will succeed.

Right. Time at right, right? Timing is everything. Time at right.

That’s very important. That’s very, very important. Absolutely.

I cannot agree more. I think those are wonderful suggestions. You know, you have to absolutely have faith if you’re going to really push the boundaries of technology and sound, we are going to be building anything new.

And you need to time it right. Because at times, there are products that do come in the market, and the timing is not right. And they fail to take off.

And it’s not really, perhaps, you know, a comment on the founder or the product at all. It is more to do with just the time and how, you know, perhaps you misread the market. One more very, very important advice, I would like, I mean, I’m sorry to call it as advice.

Because I’ve seen so many in my life. Somebody is creating something that they feel like God, which is true. I mean, there is no doubt about that.

But at the same time, just be open for criticism. Right? Yes. Don’t take it to your head.

But evaluate those criticism, because there might be some very valuable input that is coming out of the criticism. That is true. You know, like if somebody, obviously, you need to know, from where do you need to sort of accept that criticism? Or how much, you know, attention do you need to pay to that particular source, but it’s always good, like constructive criticism, if you can incorporate it in how you’re doing things, it’s only going to be something that takes you further in life.

Yes. Who knows, you know, we are already having some 1000s of Steve Jobs sitting around us. Right.

Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree. So this has been such a wonderful conversation, Ganesh.

And I really wish that we had more time. But, you know, we do have to wrap this up. Do you have any parting words before we do? It was wonderful talking to you.

And thanks for asking all the very, very, very, very important questions. And I’m really, really happy that we had a chat. Likewise, it’s been it’s been an absolute pleasure speaking with you, Ganesh.

Thank you so much for making the time. Thanks, Tarusha.

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