Hey everyone and welcome to another episode of Living on Blockchain. Today we are speaking to Pauline. Pauline is the CMO at changenow.io and she’s doing a wonderful job there.
I absolutely adore their blog and the way they are kind of marketing an instant exchange in this day and age. They have some very exciting plans and I had a really good chat with her about her journey and how she got started. How she got started is actually a very interesting one that you know you would like to stay back and listen in for more.
So let’s deep dive right in. Hi Pauline, thank you so much for taking out the time to speak to me. How are you doing today? Thank you so much for having me Tarusha.
It’s a huge honor to be on your podcast especially after all this time that we’ve been planning it. I’m doing super super well. Hope you are doing great too.
I’m super excited to talk about what crypto and change now have been doing lately. Absolutely. This has been such a long time coming and I’m so grateful that you know you could take out the time and in this pretty crazy time that we’re all going through.
But yeah let’s start off by talking about how you got into this space. A little bit about your background and how you got into this space would be really helpful in setting the tone. Of course.
So basically I always say that this story is kind of funny to tell because change now is my first job in crypto. I am a linguist by trading. I went to like I received a bachelor’s degree and almost received a master’s degree in linguistics.
And one day back in 2018 I was sitting in class and the professor who was teaching the class she said that her friend was looking for employees for a startup and she asked us like the entire class like does anyone want to join. You don’t really like you don’t really need to do anything like you don’t really need to have any specific skills you just have to you know be like able to talk to people freely and not be stupid. So I was like of course that sounds like a good option for me.
I was struggling financially that year like being still in grad school and my parents were sort of cutting funding for me so I was like yeah this job sounds pretty nice put me through to your friend. And I came to a job interview and our CEO she was just sitting there and she was like yeah we’re a crypto company would you roll with that and I was like of course sure. And yeah I’ve been here ever since done some pretty cool stuff I think in my own opinion.
So yeah this is a pretty funny story because I’ve yeah because I’ve had a classmate in school like back when I was a kid who was like one of the early adopters of Bitcoin and he got pretty rich off of his gains like back around that time in 2017 and I was like hmm that sounds nice. And my mom also kept pestering me about Bitcoin about like we should like we should buy it we should buy it and I was like mom what are you talking about this and now here I am three years later like I am right now I am like a pretty huge believer in crypto. I think that crypto is a really nice way to sort of like bank the unbanked and unbank the banked and it’s really good for like social causes and stuff.
So I do not regret joining this entire industry in the slightest it’s been nothing but a delight. It’s always a ride when you get into the crypto space there’s a huge learning curve and it’s hyper growth you know you learn new things every day but it’s so much fun but you know what I found really interesting in your story is that your mom was badgering you to get crypto like that is like epic right because usually parents would advise against stuff like that so you you must have a really really cool mom. Yeah my mom my mom’s pretty modern like that she actually teaches computer science in school so she always like keeps researching new things and she’s really good with computers and she’s learning python on like on her own right now by the way so she also has a little bit of bc and she just like likes watching the numbers grow so yeah shout out to my mom.
Yeah no that’s so wonderful to know that people are actually you know anybody who’s open to sort of imbibing new ideas that automatically makes them very interesting right because there are people as we kind of grow old we start becoming very stuck in our ways and our ideas and that is I believe that those people would never really be a good fit in the crypto space because there is so much to learn here like every day. Of course. Constantly there’s this new thing every day I like get up every day and every day there is something new to learn and imbibe so obviously here’s a huge shout out to your mom for like pushing you to get in here because you know what you guys are doing at ChangeNow is absolutely brilliant I fell in love with it as soon as I have seen it and you know that is why I was so happy with our collaboration as well for Odo and I’m very very grateful that you know we could work together there and also obviously in the future as well what you guys are doing is absolutely phenomenal so could you tell me a little perhaps let’s go back a little bit like before crypto and you know before your grad school where did you see your career was sort of heading like in the lingual space itself or did you have some other interests? Well if we go like all the way back to like when I was a kid I always wanted to be a teacher I’ve been really good with you know with languages and stuff and like English is not my first language obviously and I’ve been learning English since I was I think five years old and when I got into like high school I wanted to become an interpreter and like my entire you know school career has been going towards that and when I got into university I sort of like decided that I wanted to pursue a scientific you know like a scientific career a career in academia I was in grad school for psycholinguistics and I’ve been doing work with phonetics like experimental phonetics just like you know finding out about how babies learn to talk and unfortunately that didn’t really work out for me even though like the work I’ve been doing with my scientific advisor was pretty interesting like no one has ever done that in at least in our university like in my like sort of in my home country and but unfortunately people in academia don’t really get paid much and I like I support my family financially so you know working being paid peanuts in my university just you know like teaching a few classes a week was sort of not an option for me at the moment sort of had to put a damper on that I didn’t graduate grad school because I didn’t finish my thesis on time because I decided that like sort of like this this job in crypto was my top priority sort of like that yeah I know it’s good thinking like so there are so many call it dropouts and you know you you’ve joined the bandwagon and you’ve found yourself in a very exciting space so you know please tell us a little more about change now and you know what is the differentiator there because it’s like an instant exchange right so I would love to hear more about that so basically the idea of in like sort of an instant crypto exchange has been around for quite a while with uh sort of shape shift paving the way they were the very first service to start offering something like that to their clients and it sort of came from the understanding that not a lot of people in crypto especially with adoption like going up and up and up not a lot of people in crypto are traders not a lot of people in crypto equipped to sort of deal with you know centralized exchanges which in their like main mechanics work a lot like stock exchanges and it comes with you know understanding the interface being ready to act fast and take risks and stuff like that a lot of people in the industry especially like no coiners who freshly come into the space they’re not really ready for that so an instant exchange basically works really well yeah works works really well for people who would like to invest in crypto who like to sort of you know do their first steps in reaching out to crypto but don’t want to deal with going on an exchange and getting registered and passing KYC and you know doing all of that complicated stuff with the interfaces and whatnot we basically like provide that service for our main thing that we do that’s under the hood we take people’s deposits and we trade them on a variety of liquidity providers themselves all the person needs to do is come onto our website pick the currencies that they would like to exchange between each other and send in the deposit and they receive their exchange deposit back in five to ten minutes we’ve seen a lot of people who are immune to crypto say that like this is just the thing that they’ve been you know looking for ever since they came to crypto because like it or not crypto does have a pretty steep learning curve yeah very steep it’s very intimidating as well right for somebody of course of course yeah and like when you come on to binance or like huobi crock and any other exchange a lot of the things on there can and do tend to be very intimidating for people who heard about bitcoin like he i don’t know like a few days ago on tv and decided to just hop in and where there’s like where there’s a learning curve where there’s like a certain intimidation factor there’s a lot of room for error and it’s very easy for no pointers to just like sort of get burned onto you know a service that they don’t understand they get disillusioned and then they forget our like one of our main goals is to make sure that no people do it you know just to make sure that right yeah like just to make sure that if we are the very first thing that a person sees when they come into the crypto industry that they feel welcome and they feel at ease you know they don’t get scared away to put it like that yeah yeah so it’s about making sure that nobody gets left behind if somebody wants to be in this space and essentially that is all that you know everybody in crypto is trying to do with you know gearing up for mass adoption trying to get as many people on board because ultimately blockchain is the way i kind of perceive it blockchain and crypto is the way to you know it’s kind of it’s about decentralization and that is essentially what we need to live lives wherein we are able to sort of live up to our full potential because what we have seen otherwise these systems are obsolete and they are crumbling the traditional you know the monetary system the field system the way the governments function people need freedom and people need a sustained way of living a life to be able to reach their full potential and blockchain and crypto does that of course exactly and i always like when i come into interviews and people like i’ve had a really good snippet of when talking to monero talk the person who was interviewing like interviewing me doug he asked me like you didn’t come into crypto because you were interested in like when you just entered you came into the world of crypto because you were offered the job so like as a skeptic you must have like a you know a slightly different view on crypto than fanatics uh an enthusiast might have and um after being in crypto for three years i can say that crypto is really good for the people not like not for massive big corporations but for the people because like you know i have a lot of friends who come from like disprivileged backgrounds who like don’t really have a lot of money and a lot of the time they need like donations they need help financial help to survive because they like their landlord kicked them out or they’re out of a job and they just need like five or ten dollars to eat dinner tonight right so people usually collect donations on things like paypal while paypal is a big company they are very widespread almost everyone i know has paypal but when for example i’m trying to send money from europe to the us paypal is going to charge me like up to 50 percent in fees right so when i’m trying to send a struggling person like five dollars paypal is going to charge me seven in fees and i’d much rather send you know like 12 to the struggling person and make sure the 12 that i’ve sent the entirety of it goes to the person and not to like a big big corporation that already has a lot more funds that they know what to do with yeah like this is a little bit of like a radical take but this is what i personally believe in right yeah no that absolutely makes sense right you know blockchain is a great equalizer i believe yeah yeah exactly because you know in a lot of blockchains that are you know less centralized and say like yeah like a lot of blockchains that are not you know as centralized as for example bitcoin is because we have to admit that bitcoin is moving towards centralization with a lot of like big mining pools concentrating hash power like stuff like that but there are a lot of blockchains that are less centralized and everyone is equal everyone has equal opportunities everyone has an equal shot to success and that’s i think is really beautiful right no yeah absolutely there are so many chains now it’s not just bitcoin and you know there are so many other people who are trying to really solve a problem with a blockchain that that as i said that it becomes like a great equalizer there are people who are solving a problem for people who might be in the other part of the world and you’re actually solving a problem for somebody who’s completely nameless and faceless to you but you’re changing their life one thing at a time so you know yeah so with dash is doing such amazing work like in kenya right and and kenya and in africa you know in nigeria as well so dash is like making a lot of headway there so that is essentially what blockchain and crypto is primarily for i think and you know i would love to get your thoughts on that as well so it’s a good thing you mentioned dash because dash has also been doing like a lot of really really good things in venezuela last year i think it was last year the year before the last when they suffered the very big inflation event where like the local currency basically lost the entirety of its value people were like throwing pesos out on the street and dash has been really really well adopted there because they have this feature called instant send when like people can send money to people like without even having a smartphone they can just do it with like with a text message and i think that companies and foundations like dash are what makes crypto good you know they are what makes crypto fulfill its original purpose so it’s not like you know making another bank for dis like disadvantaged people it’s about giving people like financial autonomy giving people power for their assets and giving people freedom of ownership over their assets without you know having to rely on another you know actor who can mishandle the funds who can like lose them or blog them freeze them whatever it doesn’t happen with crypto and that i think is a really beautiful and good thing absolutely you know you get back your power right you’re reclaiming your power it’s your money ultimately and somehow aware at the mercy of banks there’s too much concentration of power and i think with any kind of concentration of power comes like corruption right and it becomes and that entire as i said already that the monetary system is kind of obsolete it’s unimaginable to us now but you know we’ve been introduced to this space the crypto space where things happen so quickly and then you say the you know you see the way the banks are working it’s horrendous absolutely and you you see how quickly they would become absolutely obsolete and perhaps be you know phased out of course of course even like i’ve thought about it a bit when we were talking about you know the banking the unbanked narrative i think i was kind of not like i was wrong when i first said it because it’s not about giving another institution to people who have been deprived of access to you know a traditional banking system it’s about creating something else entirely something else that works better than a bank something else that gives people a certain type of freedom certain type of like agency that traditional banks can’t really provide so it’s not about you know banking the unbanked it’s about just giving people financial freedom yep absolutely it’s about giving the financial prerogative back to people so yeah i think we were in the right space doing the right thing because we’ve highly we are very motivated and we understand this reason well and we want we see the vision and hopefully we’ll get there soon as well so okay so now to you know like looking towards the future how do you see uh change now kind of playing a role here as we move into the future with more instant exchanges coming up what does your roadmap say for that kind of competition in the future well as like i’ve heard someone say a really interesting point of view about not you know like not seeing competitors as competition but seeing them as partners and bringing uh you know fourth mass adoption so we’re all of like we’re all in this together we’re all in this you know we’re all in this like place and time and history where we’re all working on making crypto accessible and understandable to as many people as possible and uh with defi you know coming forth with like really really fast we’ve seen uniswap come to you know i could call it fame like come to fame last year and other defi oriented blockchains are coming forth and making you know finance truly decentralized and um right now over a change now we are constantly working on you know uh new solutions and new things that would make adoption come more like forward faster like they include but are not limited to you know making our service more accessible making our service faster and more efficient for people who want to use it but also introducing new things and services that would be helpful to people in the new crypto era without you know sacrificing our sort of like company i could call it culture or not oh basically we want adoption to come forward as fast as possible and we’re prepared fully to uh do our part to make it come forward faster and uh one of those things that we’ve been working on at least like have been researching is atomic swaps between bitcoin and monero and like bdc like and xmar like assets our cdo right now is reading up on the documentation no eta on that yet but we’re working on implementing that as fast as we can exciting yeah that’s super super exciting very nice okay so lots of exciting stuff for change now so now you know talking about friends nfts have been making a lot of noise right in the space and everybody seems to be getting into nfc’s so does change now intend to get into this space as well well i’ve been talking about it with uh our like ceo and cto just like feeling out the mood that’s like that surrounds nfc’s and the company right now if we do ever get to launching an nft marketplace it’s probably going to be like a different separate product that we probably don’t even associate with our brand right now nfc’s like they have been like they have gotten super popular i think like a couple months ago when there was like a big nft boom with people um selling one of his artworks for almost 60 million dollars and everyone was just like looking at it in awe just being like wow holy holy shit uh this is what’s happening right now i think it’s like the hype is sort of dying down slowly but surely yeah because while i do think that you know constructing a new like completely new online art market with the help of nfts is a really really good thing like it’s super exciting this partially gives like a lot of artists financial freedom as well um i still think that the nft thing is kind of super speculative right now and there’s a lot of places and a lot of points the entire nft thing that can go wrong so for example we’ve already seen someone make a fake of people’s artwork you know the most expensive one so we see that there’s a possibility of you know squatting creating fake artwork stealing people’s art to make nfts out of it without their consent and um right now we’re just sort of like looking what’s going to come of it in the next a few like in the next few months if we see that there’s like there’s going to be a you know like a value not only for us as a business but also like for the crypto community as a whole we will probably do something with nfts but right now we’re just sort of looking what we’re doing right now with change now with like with the exchange api with the exchange engine we believe that it’s like sort of a lot more important than whatever is going on on the nft market is okay yeah that makes sense i really like what you said about how you know nft the this particular space is highly speculative and you know this is something that everybody kind of keeps going back to what is the real utility or what is the right so i understand that okay it is empowering artists and you know into creating all of these tokens but then as you scale or if you’re looking at things on a macro level then where does this really end up and and that i think i don’t really have a good answer for that and i would love to you know uh know if you have some thoughts on it like where do you think this is ultimately going to end up or do you think it’s yet to sort of really hatch out uh i think nfts sort of like caught in a like got caught in a wave of hype mostly because this is something that allows to you know allows the word of like the world of crypto and like the rest of the world sort of interact on like with a common denominator so um we have like this thing art right uh art is something that everyone understands it’s like human nature to understand and perceive art and um when something that allowed people to sort of i guess revolutionize art in a sense that like art auctions in the era of covid they don’t really work all that well because everything has to happen online and then like nfts came forth which allowed people to purchase art online uh with the help of blockchain and this was like a that was hugely publicized with a lot of super prominent artworks being sold as nfts but then again how should i put it um there have been a lot of like there has been a lot of fairly valid criticism and fairly valid concerns about nfts so like the first one being you know nfts harming the environment which is kind of like a dumerous claim but uh there is you know like a seed of truth in it because if we’re talking about nfts and ethereum ethereum is still very much a proof of work blockchain with like we don’t really know when true pos is going to come on ethereum like people say it’s coming but it hasn’t come yet most like the majority of the transactions happening uh with nfts are in ethereum and um if we’re talking about climate change this is something that like inhibits you know the environment sort of restoring um back to the original state even if we say that uh the amount of transactions with nfts is minuscule compared to like trading and whatnot there is still a concern about you know about that and um another thing which i personally believe a lot more in is that a lot of nfts sort of have this inflated value um yeah because like people who have managed to like to gain a lot of monetary value off of nfts off of like selling nfts reselling nfts and whatnot they are you know people who have already been famous and if we’re talking about you know a small artist a small like people who are just trying to get by by doing commissions and stuff like that they have to spend their own money to you know to release an nft i’ve had a friend who tried selling pictures like photos as nfts and she had to spend 70 dollars just to you know get the nft on the blockchain and she didn’t manage to sell the nft after all and she just like wasted her own money and i think with um you know if we add all of it into one thing so nfts being able to fake and if she’s kind of harming the environment nfts being highly speculative because there is like it’s just sort of like a bubble which just keeps growing and growing and growing i wouldn’t say that the like the entire nft thing as it is right now it’s something that the crypto community at large needs i think this is just i don’t know obviously this is not the opinion that my company has you have a lot of people who like who believe in nfts but i personally think this is something that’s not super necessary in a form that it is right now and if these might be useful when you need to verify ownership of something it can like i think it can replace a lot of like the like a lot of legal documents that claim ownership but as of now selling pictures on the internet for millions of dollars is not something that we kind of need right now absolutely i don’t know this is like this is my cup of tea i might be wrong yeah yeah so yes the same here so you know i used to think something similar about crypto kitties right and then they became so big and i wasn’t i i just didn’t understand it i was one of those people who didn’t understand it from the get-go about crypto kitties and why it’s like a big deal and i still don’t get it because i think that until as you mentioned that until there is some there is a lot of utility for nfts perhaps but in the same format uh i i don’t believe that it’s like a scalable sector like you need to find a use case which would actually scale rather than selling like a picture for like a million dollars obviously there are people who are buying it as well and you know good for them but for me personally even i’m not able to understand the hoopla around it i i believe that there needs to be more utility or or more of a solution approach to those nfts for them to be valued so high and as you mentioned you know about small artists right and i understand that so well that you know you have to put in your own money to actually get that out and then also you wouldn’t it’s not guaranteed that you’ll sell it right unless you’re somebody famous you’re probably just going to be minting an nft paying out of your own pocket and it’ll just be there that is where the contradiction comes into play because you know when you want on one hand you’re talking about how you’re encouraging artists and on the other hand there are these artists that are actually you know putting in their own hard-earned money and they’re not getting anything exactly so for example like if you’re a small artist why not just you know sell your artwork you can sell it for crypto this is like this is a really good use case for crypto for artists being able to you know sell their artwork to people all around the world and getting paid in crypto but if we’re talking about nfts like i don’t really know whether that’s sustainable as you’ve said like if it’s not scalable it’s not sustainable in the future because right now what i’ve seen is just you know people with like people have a lot of money spending said money on pictures on the internet like spending your like millions of dollars in pixels which i think is not available to sort of like not really available to a lot of people in the world with you know like the economic disparity and stuff like that i do think that there might be a lot of like really good use cases for nfts but they’re not right now yeah exactly yeah there might be some really good examples and you know if we kind of like put our heads together and really try to come up with a solution that’s scalable for nfts we’d be able to but as you you know and i really understand and i i kind of second that a lot that in the current format this is not scalable and this is not really solving a problem so yeah exactly so this you know i’ve been running a little bit of a personal experiment myself i tried like minting so i do like some digital artwork on the side i’ve been doing for years but then i thought that you know i really want to understand what’s the what is this hype about so i admitted uh like nft myself and you see it’s a very straightforward process and there is nothing very complicated but the how do you get noticed is the point right it’s like it’s become highly competitive too quickly and then the kind of valuation at these artworks of some of the artworks that i’ve seen is just ridiculous in my opinion right so this is uh actually this reminds me of a like a thing that happened a few years ago with only fans like only fans aside for you know um models yeah and it was like a really good way for you know empowering sex workers for being able to make an like to make income uh independently yeah yeah uh yeah in a safe and sustainable way but then i think it was bella hadid who sort of got an only fans account she didn’t even post anything like to risk on there she just posted like exclusive pictures exclusive content and um when she registered on the platform she made 2.5 million dollars in the first day after she was registered in only fans and it broke the platform only fans works in a way that like you make a certain amount of money only fans deducts a commission and they pay you i think they used to pay you weekly but after the bella hadid incident only fans was forced to pay their models monthly which deprived a lot of people of their perhaps only source of income and i think nfts are sort of familiar because we have like people like people we have people like rhymes selling their artwork for a huge amount of money like for huge amounts of money while smaller creators just waste their own because no one buys their artwork even though it’s really beautiful so yeah yeah that’s very true it’s it’s the sad reality but hopefully you know we’ll be able to sort of come up with a sustainable model for nfts because definitely there is value to be have there but in this current format it doesn’t work okay so because we’ve been talking about nfts for so long very quickly now i’ll come to my questions that i really i was looking forward to so here in the crypto space like if there are so many people who are trying to sort of jump in right who would you say that they should sort of follow and what are the thought leaders you would recommend that people should follow to get the insights and the right information because you’ll be we both know that right information is also hard to come by right in this place yeah so who would you recommend so if we’re talking about you know about thought leaders uh in the crypto space i would say that if like if you’re just jumping in it would be safer to stick to bitcoin and some really great people who i’ve been following personally are um anthony popliano right and bobby lee uh the brother of charlie lee who is like the crypto og uh he is writing a book about bitcoin and i think it’s really really worth checking out especially like right now where we live in a very interesting time on the market right now like this is an unprecedented bull run right and um i think going on to reddit and reading like what people in our slash bitcoin say might also bring some value but if we’re talking about like things that you shouldn’t absolutely shouldn’t do don’t trust random people on the internet please always do your own research like a little bit of reading goes a long way and uh if you’re new to crypto bitcoin should absolutely be your first choice because everyone knows bitcoin there’s a lot of information on the internet about bitcoin and only when you have a base understanding of what crypto is how it works what wallets are what exchanges are how to invest in crypto safely stuff like that only then should you consider you know branching out into different projects yeah and stuff like that because actually like i’ve been on an event a few weeks ago and um right now we’re like as i already said uh we are in a bull market there’s a lot of money spinning around on the market there’s a lot of money spinning around in the industry and that means that there’s a lot of space for bad actors to sort of prey on people who don’t really know much about crypto i’ve seen people who have learned about crypto like two months ago and they’ve already invested into some financial pyramid that’s going to steal all of their money and they are going to indoctrinate a lot more people in it so if you’re looking into crypto if you’re looking into investing um as bobby lee has said a few days ago to me buy bitcoin huddle it for a few years just read up watch videos read articles and stuff like that and only then should you sort of branch out into anything else other than bitcoin actually i’m going to take a look into people i personally read who also might have some sweet opinions on bitcoin and those being andrew fi is a really good expert in nfcs he is like a pretty good acquaintance of mine yeah fluffy pony the guy who made monero is also a really good source of information on bitcoin i wouldn’t follow justin sun because that guy is like really super into marketing no offense to justin sun he is brilliant but um i wouldn’t get like the freshest crypto opinions from him cz cz from binance is like a good a good person to like you know yeah to follow on twitter just to see what he says yeah i think that’s that’s pretty much it yeah so these are all good recommendations you start with like you know the originals of the ogs in the bitcoin space uh because if you’re really getting into it uh bitcoin is your best bet yeah exactly it’s most widely supported a lot of people know about it so if you have any questions it is very likely that you will get an answer that answer is going to be correct yeah sort of like this so uh you know this kind of uh brings me to my last question that i kind of put everybody through whoever’s on this particular podcast so if somebody is like listening and reappearing in from the outside and they want to get into crypto usually people have this you know notion in their head that they need to be coders and developers to get in this space right so if somebody is like just peering in how would you recommend that they start living on blockchain and they get into the space well i am one of those people who like as again as i already said before i used to hold like a lot of really skeptic views on crypto and blockchain and i know that a lot of people are going to have the same views as i did before you like dip your toes into crypto i would suggest you listen to regular like crypto enthusiasts and like later adopters to just like get some experience that they already had get some you know insights on how to move into crypto safely in the current atmosphere again like listen to some thought leaders and only after doing your own research on crypto should like should you ever move into the space because like as i already said before it’s really easy to get scammed especially in this environment right now in the bull market and our main goal like as a project our main goal as an actor in the crypto space is to make sure that people are treated fairly people get their value like the value for their money stuff like that so the only advice i could give to new investors is to always always do your own research never trust anyone as far as you like always trust people as far as you can throw them because when you move into crypto like the sad reality is that there is a high possibility that you might be lied to uh you might be scammed so always get your information from various sources if various like at least five different sources that you read they agree in one thing that it is a thing that you might consider true if you’ve talked to some shady person on reddit who’s told you that you should like get this wallet and spend your own money on buying bitcoin to like and store it on this wallet then you might want to do some further research on that yeah no you’re absolutely right so this is very good advice for people appearing in from the outside and the space as i keep saying you know we we are in need of people from all all the fields and uh you know whatever your skill set is you will be able to find space for it in in this space because crypto and blockchain is so dynamic and it’s in its infancy and it’s seeing continuous growth you’re always looking for good people who can take this movement forward exactly i personally believe that like you know not as like again not as change now as employee but like as a crypto enthusiast as a person who has been in crypto for a while i do believe that a little crypto winter you’d like wouldn’t do the space any harm because as we’ve seen in the crypto winter of 2018 like back in i think november 2018 when bitcoin lost i think 80 percent of value or something like that right um we’ve seen a lot of bad actors who preyed on innocent no pointers they sort of left the space because there were like there wasn’t any money for them to like to get from people whom they and um right now i think it’s like it’s high time something like that happened again because we’ve seen like people from wall street bets get scanned for like three million dollars or something like that and this is not like this is a pretty common occurrence at this point right we keep seeing like more and more news about people getting scammed while being promised uh you know quick profits and um first and foremost crypto is not really about profit you know people usually tend to think that but crypto is about giving people financial freedom and not just getting rich quick this is the thing that you should like keep in mind uh at all times i think absolutely yeah it’s not a quick you don’t get rich quickly but it’s about financial freedom it’s so uh any any last thoughts pauline before we wrap this up is a huge thank you uh to you for having me on this podcast this is like this has been a very interesting conversation i’m really happy that i got to share some of my thoughts on what is happening in the cryptosphere right now thank you thank you so much for this chance i think that open defi in your pocket is a very solid product uh you’ve been nothing but a delight to have as a partner i hope we reach new heights together and um as for you know people who might be listening to this podcast again i would reiterate to do your own research and um you know don’t get burned right like yeah don’t get burned just be safe absolutely it goes for covid as well as for crypto be safe look out for yourself yeah exactly no uh thank you so much pauline you’ve been a delight as well as a partner and as a person as well i really value what you’ve kind of brought to this professional equation that we have and thank you so much for taking out the time to speak with me thank you for having me