Transcription Episode 38

Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of Living on Blockchain. Today we are speaking to Jennifer. Jennifer is a product manager at Africa’s foremost global payment solution Laserpay and also the co-founder of the NGO Crotech.

So this was a very interesting conversation, especially deep diving into what Web3 has in store vis-a-vis the African continent and I can’t wait for you guys to deep dive right in. Hi Jennifer, thank you so much for taking out the time to speak to me today. How are you doing? Hi Teresa.

Yeah, I mean, I’m doing quite all right. It’s a very calm day here in Lagos, Nigeria. So yeah, I’m cool.

I’m okay. How are you doing? I’m good. I’m good.

Awesome. Thank you so much once again for taking out the time. For our listeners, would you like to tell us, you know, what you’re building currently? You’re with Laserpay.

So would you like to talk about that a little bit and your journey so far in Web3? Okay, so first, yeah, I work at Laserpay Finance. It’s a crypto payments company. Basically, we help businesses to receive payments via stablecoins.

Yeah, so my journey towards, you know, in Web3. So initially, I didn’t even know that Web3 existed per se. I didn’t even know where I was at the moment because this is like my third year in tech ecosystem.

So I joined tech like shortly after university. I studied accounting. And so when I got into a fintech company, I was in the growth department.

So I went through being a social media manager to being a growth associate to growth and brand partnerships. And then I decided I wanted to use I’m a very strategic person. And I noticed I am very interested in satisfying people, right? Providing solutions and, you know, what not.

So I was like, you know what? Why don’t I like use this skill set into like another career? So I spoke to my CEO back then. And then I said I was going to make a switch to being a product manager. I wasn’t expecting that I was even going to be in the Web3 space, because like I said earlier, I didn’t know that it was like a thing called Web3, right? I only wrote that, OK, I wrote down in my iNotes that I wanted to work in one of the crypto companies, work in Google, Meta, work at Google Meta, you know, I just wrote a list of companies that I want to be at.

And then I got into Laser Pay Finance. And then I didn’t know how deep, you know, Web3 was before I got into Web3, right? So it was when I got into Web3 that I knew there was something called DeFi, the NFT space, the DAOs, the DABs, you know, what not, right? And I realized that, OK, I was actually, you know, on that decentralized finance. Yeah.

It’s actually been like a very interesting journey, because like I said, I didn’t realize how deep it was until I got in, because I had to keep, you know, every day there are new policies, there are new things that are being shipped out. So like I had to keep reading to understand the crypto jargons that a lot of people were saying, right? Or there were three jargons that a lot of people were saying. You can probably be in an ox polygon tweet space, and then you’re hearing a lot of things that sounds actually very foreign, you know, to you.

So I had to do a lot of study. I mean, it’s still ongoing, like you can never stop studying and stop reading, you know, keeping yourself equipped when it comes to Web3, right? I mean, it wasn’t even recently they were saying there’s something called the Web5 allowed. So you need to, you know, keep yourself equipped.

That’s like literally what I did. Yeah. And so that’s literally my, that’s like my journey phase, like into the Web3.

It’s quite exciting. It’s actually challenging, right? I like the challenge. I like the fact that, you know, it’s still like a rough, you know, when you’re trying to carve a diamond, right? The stage before it becomes the actual diamond, right? That is what like, you know, this whole Web3 is, right? Because there are still a lot of things to do, right? To improve the user experience, to make people understand how to adopt crypto without a lot of jargons or technicalities behind it, right? So the fact that I’m trying to, you know, the role that I’m playing right here is, you know, building products in such a way that anybody, right, can actually make use of a product built on blockchain, right? Without having to think of technicalities behind it, right? They probably use the product as they use it with two products, right? They don’t have to think of all the underlying things that we put into, you know, making that product.

It is actually very simple for them to use. So, I mean, that’s actually is very interesting for me, right? It’s very challenging. And yeah, it just really fuels my drive, or fuels my drive, rather.

So yeah, that’s pretty much it. That’s pretty exciting, because you know, you’ve seen the whole gamut, right? You’ve mentioned that, you know, you’ve done partnerships as well, and you kind of came to, you know, being a BM, because, you know, you saw an interest there. So as a product manager, tell me, where do you see, you know, the products that are being built in the Web3 space? Where do you see them heading, and what do you think they lack right now? So I’m going to speak from perspective of, before I go like really general, I’m going to actually speak in perspective of like in Africa, right? Now, products in Web3 beats, what do you call it, you know, we have the NFTs, we have the DeFi space, we have the dApps, and all of them are still built on the blockchain, right? And like, most people might say that things are being routed into, for adoption to happen, right? There needs to be like a proper education that is being done, like education in a layman’s term.

Let me probably use where you come from, right? Probably, you know, India or whatnot, right? There are so many languages in India, right, that are being spoken, right? You know, imagine if you educate people in all of those languages, and not just by English, right? And you’re not just explaining it in all of those languages, but you’re explaining it as simple as two plus two is equal to four, right? Imagine the number of people that are actually going to adopt, you know, those products that are being built by people like me, right? Another thing else for Africa, right, is that trust is actually a very big issue. Most people don’t joke with money, right? And for somebody to actually trust you with your money, like I said earlier, you will be NFT, right? You still need to pay with crypto, be it stable coins or coins that, you know, be it Solana or whatnot, right? You still definitely have to pay with crypto, right? Whether you’re paying with Ethereum or any of that, right? Now, that money itself, right, it’s of high value, right? And for anybody to actually trust you with their money, they need to understand what exactly they are purchasing for, or they’re trying to buy, or they need to understand where their money is going to, you know, where their money is going to be staying, right? And trust in Africa right now, or trust anywhere, can actually be fostered or, you know, enabled if our government, right, is, you know, in full support, right? It may not be in full support, but if our government is, you know, trying to make people understand that, okay, I mean, it’s not like I’m not against this, right? But I’m trying to understand how, you know, we can play a part in this too, right? That, you know, like shutting off the door, right? You know, if probably stuff like that is actually happening, you know, people, it ignites trust in people, right? To actually say, okay, their money is safe. Because normally people trust like things that have to be fiat, that currency that they cannot even see, right? Like my dad says that, whenever I mention crypto to him, he’s like, oh, whenever I mention crypto to my dad, he’s always like, oh, my money is in the air.

I cannot see the money. Anything I cannot see, I’m not doing, right? That’s what he says. He needs to see the money, like see it in physical, right? So like I said, it boils down to education.

It boils down to trust, right? If your own government can, you know, make people feel like, oh, okay, we are not shutting this like totally, but we are trying to see how, you know, we can play a part in adopting this, right? And putting regulations that would probably, you know, control maybe bad actors or stuff like that, right? I feel like it would help us, like help, you know, us with the products that we’re actually building, people that are actually building, right? For people to be able to adopt it, you know, in the next coming years. I mean, there are actually countries where, I was seeing something on Twitter, where you can actually withdraw cash by paying crypto, like they’re like an ATM machine. I mean, that’s like the future, right? So yeah, that’s exactly the future, right? You know, there are many use cases that people can actually like solve, right? With use of blockchain.

I was having a conversation with a friend because I run an NGO, right? And the NGO is actually to position people into the tech ecosystem. That’s like teenagers, right? From 14 to 19. And then, you know, someone was saying that it would be nice for there to be a use case in terms of like blockchain, using blockchain, right? Whether partial or full, where people can actually see like a public ledger where money is going into what money is financing, that anybody can see it, right? So there are a lot of use cases, right? As it boils down to education, it also boils down to trust.

It boils down to, you know, people using this to build a lot of things, right? Build things that, you know, people can actually relate to each other. So I think, you know, what you mentioned is very pertinent. I think it’s very pertinent across the board, especially so, you know, basically in countries, in Africa, in Asia, where trust becomes like, you know, a huge hiccup, right? When you want to already own a lot of assets, right? So what I would like to understand from you as a perspective, from like a PM, you know, you have full control of where the product is perhaps heading or the direction it’s taking.

How do we resolve this as like an ecosystem? The trust issue, as well as like the education issue, how do we develop products that, you know, that can be inherently trustworthy? Users would be happy to, you know, come on board, because there is a learning curve involved as well, so it would be hard to own users on any Web3 application. So what are your take regarding how do we kind of go about resolving this as an ecosystem? Yeah, so like there’s little, so more that I can actually say about this, because I’m usually like a very big advocate of transparency, right? And which is one thing, you know, Web3 blockchain, right? It’s actually empowering, which is the open source part of things, right? But like, aside from like that, which is more, you know, of a developer thing or, you know, technical writers or whatnot, right? We’re talking about users themselves, right? You know, being open with, because they’re actually insanely, if you actually dig it, right, they’re actually insanely, for example, fees attached to blockchain transactions, right? And then as a user, if I probably impute, let’s say 100 USDT, I’m probably, you know, I was being charged and the next thing I’m seeing is it’s something USDT. It makes me really crazy to ask myself, like, what happened to the remaining 20 something USDT, right? What’s going to be transparency on pricing? Another thing is that, you know, if it’s possible in the nearest like future, right, that we can actually work towards optimizing the blockchain in such a way that the fees that it charges, right, are actually very little, that it doesn’t scare people away.

Because, I mean, why put my money in crypto and then I get charged like a lot when I can actually put my money in fiat and they probably like deduct like 15 Naira or 100 Naira, like in our currency, right, for charges and whatnot, right? So, I mean, there’s that alternative, right? So why do I have to go and put my money in crypto or whatnot, right, that I get charged a lot? So like I mentioned earlier, you know, we need to be very transparent with pricing. We need to work towards optimizing the blockchain in such a way that fees are actually like really reduced, that it doesn’t scare people away. Number three would be making products and building products in such a way that I don’t need to think so much before I get what you’re trying to say to me, right, or what the value proposition is.

Let me give you a very good example. So most people are actually very visual before like they actually, you know, try an app, right? Sometimes it’s because the way the marketing team, right, has probably communicated the essence of this product, right? So why you need to, you know, use this app, why you need this in your life, right? Like it has to be very relatable, right? It has to be relatable. It has to be very easy for you to understand.

And that’s not even the marketing job on its own. As a product manager, I have to collaborate with all the departments. I have to collaborate with the engineers, with the product marketing, with the marketing team, with the legal team, with the compliance team, with the, you know, every design team, all the whole team, right? So basically when I’m building a product, right, I would have to communicate with the marketing team in such a way that they understand this and they’re able to communicate to the users the essence of what I’m trying to build, right? So I might be thinking complex, but I expect you to, you know, break down them in such, you know, a bit, right, where it’s really understandable.

So it is very important that internally, where like you’re building your products, right, there is a proper flow of communication, right? Because if as a product manager, I actually do not communicate the essence of why I’m actually doing this, what this feature is about, what this feature is going to do for people, right, how this feature is going to actually help our company, right, in terms of like revenue-wise, right, and all of that, you wouldn’t be able to communicate this product clearly to the users if I do not communicate well to you, right? So yeah, I would say these three things, right, the transparency part of things, the optimizing, you know, working as the developers, you know, the engineers, developers, and all of that, people that are actually building the, that are contributing towards directly the blockchain, right, they should optimize it in such a way that we don’t incur so much charges on fees, and then also communicating very well internally within cross-functional development departments, right, so that they are able to communicate this product to the users the exact way you have it in mind, but in a very clear, precise, and inviting term, right, that, they would want to jump in and use the product, and, you know, even down to after they, you know, jump in to use the product, right, another thing is, you know, one thing people say is that engineers, right, they just know how to build, just an engineer that wants to build a rocket today, they’re going to build a rocket for you, but what about the UX part of things, how the, there’s something I read, right, in Web3 space, right, from zero to one, an engineer will be able to build, but from one to hundred, it is blocked a lot of UX, blocked a lot of UX issues, right, like the UX part is actually very bad, and this is where, like, you know, product managers come in, you know, and all of that to make that, to solve that issue, right, so how do you make the flow, the user experience really great, right, how do you optimize it, right, so, yeah, you know, you need to think of things, you don’t just think of things as, okay, I’m the one, I’m not building for myself, I’m building for somebody else, right, I’m building for somebody’s need, so I have to carry out different type of research, right, I have to carry out user experience research, I have to, you know, be, I have to work with data, right, you know, else I’m going to assume a lot, you know, and also, I mean, like I said earlier, engineers, we already know how to build, right, but at the same time, that’s why you are there, you’re actually there to guide them to build in the right way, you know, it’s actually very possible for a designer to design something, right, on Figma, and then the engineers build something else entirely, right, so there has to be, like, a proper flow of communication, right, between, like, all cross-functionality members, if you actually want to build a great product, yeah, that is actually going to be adopted by people. I love the, you know, the process that you’ve enumerated, it’s something that, that from the outside, it looks very simple, right, like, as a PM, you know, you just need to sort of create a vision, but what you mentioned about how there has to be extensive interdepartmental communication, and that is basically the gist of how products kind of move forward, I think people on the outside, they just see the end result, right, and then, you know, or stakeholders are like, okay, not innovating fast enough, but there is a process, you know, there’s method, so to say, and you kind of got that down. And that was just absolutely lovely.

So I could basically resonate with it so much. So that is the part that, like, really stands out to me here. You know, you have the right idea visibly how we kind of move forward in terms of building the right kind of products.

But now, you know, moving forward from the ecosystem as a whole, when you are building for LaserPay specifically, so then is it you keep the African geography in mind, correct? Because you guys are big there. I’m in Africa. Yes, yes.

So you’re building for, you know, you keep in mind the trends there, perhaps when you’re building, right? So yeah, so what is your process? Like what I was coming down to, like, if you’re like targeting a particular, you know, demography, and you’re looking at to build for them. So what is your process? How do you figure out what is like a relevant problem? Because at times we get into our own echo chambers, right? And we might be more privileged than the rest. And how do you get out of that echo chamber? And how do you realize that it’s a real itch to scratch or a real problem for people? What is your process? Yeah, okay.

So let me start off with the fact that I mean, it’s LaserPay basically is being a product for the world, right? It’s a global cross-border payment platform, right? But if you actually dip it in Africa, right, our payment system is actually very damaged, in the sense that if I’ve heard of stories, right, where, you know, people actually travel to like Kenya, or even travel to Ghana, and it’s actually very hard to get money, right? And I can see that. And that’s like the actual problem, you know, where that thing lies, right? So obviously, I know, we are building with Africans in mind, something very interesting is, so you know, like I said, if you’re trying to build, you’re trying to build data, right? You have to build data in mind. And so building with data in mind, it means that you actually have to use maybe behavioral analytics tool to see where your customer users are, probably where they are, right, like their locations and whatnot, and see how they are interacting with the app, right on the platform.

And it’s actually very interesting, like very amazing to actually see that I’ve seen users in Canada, I’ve seen users in the UK, I’ve seen users in India, I’ve seen users in Romania, I’ve seen users in, you know, a lot of countries, right, like actually using LisaP. And I was actually very shocked, right, because I was thinking, you know, we’re going to see more people from Africa, right? So in as much as like, you know, we’re building products with putting the damage system of payments in Africa in mind, right? When we actually delivering or deploying or putting our products in production, right, we’re working towards that, we’re actually building in such a way that it’s for everybody to use, right? We’re building in such a way that it is global standard, it is global quality, right? It means that if probably somebody in Paris, or in France or somewhere else, right, stumbles upon our products, right? You will never really think that it was built by a Nigerian, right? You would not think that it was built for a certain niche of people, because it was built with standard in mind, right? And in that sense, right, we’ve actually made provisions for, I mean, like I said, we actually only do stable coins, right? But we’ve made provisions for or we are making provisions for and we’ve currently made some provisions for, you know, people that probably interact with currencies like dollar, Arabian currency, I think there’s Ghana currency, there are a lot of currencies that we’ve actually, you know, put in place, right? That’s for different countries. And not only can you receive stable coins from any part of the world from your customers, we are currently working on enabling payouts, right? Which means that you can actually withdraw your crypto.

But when you’re withdrawing it, you can withdraw it in fiat, right? So you can pay out your money in your dollar value, whether it’s a dollar account, like whether, you know, you’re in the US or you’re in the UK, right? You can actually withdraw your stable coins to, you know, USD, right? Or pounds or, you know, bits, whatever, right? So we’ve made provisions for that, right? So yeah, which is something we’re currently doing. That’s the payout part of things, right? We’ve, you know, we’ve worked on the part of receiving money, right? One of the amazing things I’m actually doing currently is to even improve, you know, the whole process, the how you can receive money, right? That’s like for customers and whatnot, right? I would have loved to see what I’m building, right? Well, like you can actually, you can actually stay in tune because tomorrow it’s actually be deployed, right? It’s like, we’re rolling it out tomorrow in production. So let me not let the cat out of the bag here.

So like, we are making it very easy and very interesting for creators, merchants, startups, businesses to be able to receive money from any part of the world. And also now currently to pay out money, anywhere you are currently, you can actually like, once like that feature, that feature is actually worked upon, right? Which is what is currently in progress. You can actually receive money from any, pay out your money from any part of the world, right? Yeah.

So we are thinking global standard, right? Something to serve the global needs, you know? Yeah. Wow. Okay.

So what is next for LaserPay? Like what are you guys building on, which is something that, you know, you guys, you might want to make like a disclosure here, but what is the next feature that you guys are working on which really excites you? Yes. So like I said earlier, the, actually the most exciting feature, right, that we are currently working on is, and which everybody’s actually, everybody, when I mean everybody, right? Anywhere you go to, and because LaserPay has quite a momentum, right? It’s not only on social media, but like in fiscal presence and, you know, a lot of people know about it. So most people are always asking, when will I be able to withdraw my money from LaserPay? When will I be able to pay out money? When will I be able to transfer money out of LaserPay, right? So that’s like one of the major features we’re actually currently working on, right? To enable, you know, somebody in China receive their money, to enable somebody in Dubai, right? Or UAE to receive their money, like to pay out their money, to transfer the money out of LaserPay, right? Somebody in Nigeria to be able to transfer their money out of LaserPay accounts, that was to be in fiat and not in crypto, right? So because currently what we have right now is that you can pay out your money in crypto, right? But you can’t pay out your money via your traditional bank or your WISE or, you know, whichever accounts you decide you want to use, right? So we are making, currently we’re working on that, right? To enable you remove your money out of LaserPay to your traditional bank account.

So that’s what we’re currently working on at the moment. Awesome. Awesome.

Okay. So this has been a lot about LaserPay and, you know, your journey as a payer and it’s been very exciting. Now moving towards the macro ecosystem, which are like the platforms apart from LaserPay, what are the three other apps or, you know, applications in the Web3 ecosystem that you feel are moving in the right direction and you love what they’re doing? Okay.

Actually, I actually heard that’s what you said, but I wanted to be sure that’s what you said, because I’m like, hmm, I’m not going to say XYZ is looking promising. I said, I’m going to talk about, you know, Web3 products that are probably doing well. I’m not going to talk about probably a product in the same line with LaserPay, right? Because I believe that there’s nobody, there’s no product that’s going to amount to what LaserPay is doing, right? Whether I’m biased or not, right? I don’t mind if I’m being biased about that.

Yeah. But for crypto products, right? So there’s this product, there’s this company called Liberty, right? It’s a DeFi product, right? And I think it’s actually really amazing. I actually came upon it today.

I haven’t exactly tested the product, but I actually really do love the interface, right? You know, something else that actually really attracts users is how neat the UI is, right? And how less ambiguous like the UI is, you know, it’s not clustered, it’s very clear, you know? So Liberty is one product that I’m actually like, you know, rooting for. Another would be, even if I don’t want to say it, is what do they call these guys again? They call them GetFlip or Flip, right? Yeah, I think it’s GetFlip or Flip. Yeah, should be that.

Yeah. It’s something to actually, a company to actually look forward to because every, I saw that they’re trying to integrate with Coinbase for, I think, to be able to receive money or, you know, one thing or the other, right? I really like their product thinking process, right? Quite interesting. They’re also, yeah, the parent company is actually called FluteCoins.

Yeah, FluteCoins, that’s the actual name, right? So they’ve been doing a couple of integration, right? They recently did something called Flip by FluteCoins, right? It kind of enables you to save, spend your money, send your money, right? And, you know, you can actually earn like 6% on stable coins, right? Yeah. And I noticed that I got like an email that they integrated with Coinbase or something. So yeah, I mean, for me, those two, especially because they’re African products, right? So I’m actually looking forward to like the amazing thing that they will actually build, right? Yeah.

Okay, awesome. So tell me a little about who are your go-to thought leaders or, you know, people that you follow in this space who you would recommend to as well? Okay, great. So I actually have just one person.

I think he’s the convener for Bankless. I don’t know if you know about Bankless, right? Yeah, Bankless HQ. Yeah, I really love him so much.

Ryan’s son, Adams. Yeah, he’s someone I actually really look up to. I’m like usually very excited whenever like there’s a, you know, a new podcast or a new talk about, you know, something going on in the crypto space, right? He sounds very, very in-depth, right? I’m very thorough and, you know, we’re usually very optimistic about like things or looking forward to things that, you know, he’s willing to share his knowledge about, you know, what’s going to happen next in the free space, what’s what was currently happening and yeah, all of that.

Yeah, he’s that one person that I actually look up to. Okay, yeah, I think, you know, that’s a very good recommendation. So considering, you know, we are running really short on time and, you know, it’s been such a lovely conversation.

I just saw the clock but I would like to, you know, ask you two more things. So I want you to tell me a few, you know, name a few women in this space who you think are doing a fabulous job because I feel that, you know, the gender ratio here is very skewed like in other deep tech, you know, niches but in Web3 as well. So who are the women who are doing fabulous things and you would like to give them a shout out? Okay, so first I’m actually going to give, so there’s somebody here in Nigeria, right? Her name is Fermil Kapo.

She works for Nescoin, right? I think she’s actually like on a business stop as a product marketer person, right? I mean, it takes like a lot of effort to, sorry about the background, it takes a lot of, yeah, it takes a lot of effort to communicate or bring down like these products that, you know, people are building to use as to make use of. Then also one person, obviously, I know she doesn’t know me. She can’t even know me but her name is, I think, Kali.

Yeah, she’s a convener for women in Web3. Yeah, she’s a convener for women in Web3. They are backed by Dao.

Yeah, yeah, so the two of them, I would like to give a shout out to. All right, awesome. Okay, so this is like the last question that I ask everybody who comes on the show.

What would be your advice to people who are, you know, looking in, peering in from the outside, from the Web2 space and, you know, what would be your two cents to ensure that, you know, they start living on blockchain? Oh, like them getting on blockchain, on the Web2 space. Yeah, okay. Actually, this is actually very awesome because I got a text today and the person, she was asking me when did I get into Web3, how did I get into Web3 because she just recently got a job in Web3 space and, you know, she doesn’t really know how to figure it out.

But I want to say something very important is that you are going to get overwhelmed. Like, you’re not going to escape it. You must get overwhelmed.

Like, you have to, you can’t avoid it, right? And being overwhelmed is because you are ingesting and you are getting fed a lot of information that you cannot handle, right? Or you’re getting fed a lot of information that you need to take in one at a time. You cannot be everywhere. You cannot understand everything all at once.

You cannot understand everything in a very short span. And I’m going to tell people that, I tell people that I would advise you to be kind with yourself, right? Don’t beat yourself too much, right? You can be slow paced, but be fast paced about it. It means that you are not too slow and you are not too fast.

You’re just there, right? Be kind to yourself, you know, learn to be a part of the community. Web3 is so community centric and that is how products actually grew. It is a really large, the Web3 space is actually a large space of community, right? Like, it’s very community based.

So, you need to be part of community for you to be able to understand the things that people are discussing about and get into it, right? You know, one thing people say is that things don’t just happen like that. They happen out of manifestation, right? When you keep saying things over and over again to yourself, or when you keep listening to things over and over and over again, it gets to be a part of you. You get to understand it.

When women give birth to children, right? And, you know, they’re always like, mama, papa, they keep saying it to the child, and that is how the child is able to say mama and papa. It is the same thing. You need to be around people that speak or are doing the same thing that you are doing, right? So that you can get into the game, right? So that you can understand when people are conversing.

Before you know, they’re able to converse in the language people are always conversing, people calling jackals, but like you already understand what people are saying, do you understand? So, yeah, be kind to yourself, be in a community, you know, you need to actually be very consistent. That’s the honest truth. You need to always show up, you need to be very consistent.

Whether you are trying to take some YouTube videos, you’re trying to study, you’re trying to do this, you’re trying to do one thing or the other, you need to be consistent with it, right? Because if you actually fall off, it will be actually so hard to pick up. You’re going to pick up, but it’s going to be so hard to pick up, right? Because the web-friendly space is very fast-paced, like things are always happening every single time, right? So it’s not going to wait for you. It is not going to wait for you.

So you need you need to move with this as it’s moving. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, that’s wonderful advice. I think, you know, you will be overwhelmed and that is absolutely okay. I think this is essentially what I keep telling everybody who asks me that, you know, if you’re going to get into Web3, you need to get comfortable with the idea of just being very, very uncomfortable.

You have to accept it and that, you know, you will be very uncomfortable because you don’t know everything and nobody knows. Yeah. Yeah.

There’s too much happening at any given point of time in Web3. You know, I don’t know anything. You don’t know.

Everybody in the space is learning and you learn everything. Yeah. That’s the way you grow.

Yeah, definitely true. That’s that’s absolutely amazing advice. Awesome.

Thank you so much, Jennifer. This has been such a lovely conversation. Honestly, I really didn’t realize how the time passed and, you know, I would perhaps call you in for another episode because we never really got to the trends and, you know, your outlook on the DeFi space as a whole or NFTs and Metaverse and I would have loved to get that.

But in the interest of time, you know, we’ll wrap this up right now. But before, you know, we do any last thoughts? I actually do not have like so much to say. I would I know I know a lot of people say that there’s nothing wrong with the Web2 space.

But what I’m actually going to say is in as much as there’s nothing wrong with infrastructure in Web2, there’s something that is promising in Web3, which is the fact that you have control over things in the sense that country, the control or the power, right, is actually shifted into the hands of everyone. Right. And not just by one entity or one organization or whatnot.

Right. So that is one superpower, right, that the Web2 doesn’t actually have. So if you do want to actually get into Web3, be very sure about it.

Be very make very intentional efforts. Yeah. And it’s very possible for anybody, any single person.

Right. Like I said, I have had an accounting background. And I mean, yeah, I am a product manager in the Web3 space.

I probably wouldn’t have thought about this in the past in the last three years. And you know that you can do it. You can any person can get into it.

Right. It is not for special people. Right.

Yeah. I could not agree more. I think, you know, you come from a background accounting and, you know, I have been in the deep tech space for now 12 years, but I’m actually a literature student.

So I’m completely self-taught. So I think you should not have these hang ups that, OK, you know, Web3 is only for the techies. Anybody can come and make them awkward.

Yeah. True. Awesome.

Thank you so much again, Jennifer, for taking out the time to speak to us. And this is a lovely chat. And I’ll probably get you on another episode very soon.

Yeah. Thank you. I mean, it would be nice to talk to you sometime in time soon.

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