Transcription Episode 39

Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of Living on Blockchain. Today we are speaking to Daniel. Daniel is the co-founder of Offchain, the London chapter and you know he’s doing along with Offchain a wonderful job of creating more awareness and education in the web3 space by web3 meetups.

He has been around the block for a while and this was a very interesting conversation dealing with adoption so you really don’t want to miss this one. Let’s jump right in. Hi Daniel, thank you so much for taking the time to speak to me today.

How are you doing? I’m good thank you, very good. Awesome, so for our listeners would you like to tell us a little about yourself and you know your journey so far in the web3 space? Yeah, what’s the question? My journey in the web3 space? Yes, like a little about yourself and a little about your journey so far in the web3 space. Yeah, well so my name is Daniel Simon, I’m the founder for Offchain London so we build a global crypto community.

I would say like local so it’s like global and local at the same time so we have 55 chapters so we are in 55 countries already but I’m building in London myself but I can tell you like a long story short basically I started crypto in January 2018 at the worst time when at the top of the bull market you know like bought Ethereum like thousand something thousand fifty or thousand dollar and then 900, 700, 500, 300 and then 80 and I bought the bottom as well which was great but then I invested like 100 ETH invested into like a shitcoin like altcoin which obviously I believed in that time and I was a big supporter of the project like so anyway I lost a lot of money with all kinds of altcoins and risky projects, fair projects, scam, Ponzi and so on you know how it goes but then eventually I found phantom I mean I knew phantom even before but I invested into phantom like March 2020 little money, little money because I lost most of my money by that time already so I invested like like I don’t know little money really a thousand dollar or something like that or less little yeah and but then that phantom became like a big success because I was also working with them and chilling them and promoting them 24-7 for the next 18 months and this became like I achieved like 1,200 times of the investment 1,200 so this is what you want to do crypto this is this is the magic when it’s finally you’re not losing not losing like so much going to zero but it can go to opposite as well to go to the moon really so yeah that’s absolutely yeah so that was great that’s when you get your money back and you get you know that’s why you yeah that’s what you want to hear in crypto now obviously now we crashed badly like last year 69,000 November and then even phantom was in a very good position in January obviously I didn’t sell didn’t sell anything I’m a moon boy but now we crashed we crashed badly even phantom is like 92% down or something like that 90 I didn’t check today so yeah it is really bad but anyway I’m very very optimistic myself I’m very you know keen on promoting the web-free projects and I want to have a good regulation with the government I’m doing a little big group as well with the government with FCA so yeah I’m pretty very active. Okay, awesome. So how did you initially get into like what made you start the you know the chapter of off-chain global or off-chain in general what made you you know begin and take on that journey because it’s a mammoth task day.

Yeah, so okay what happened is that basically I was with phantom I was supporting them but then there was like an internal internal fight so basically eventually I got barred banned from phantom itself and then Jonathan oh okay yeah well you know a fan you know in crypto there’s a lot of fight in going fight going on in every project and it’s like phantom I’m still a phantom investor by the way despite of these fights and things like that phantom it has a very good technology a very very solid technology but not good marketing very bad marketing but very very solid technology at the technology level still and most of the project in crypto still not only phantom but other projects as well usually every project is very centralized or I know we always talk about decentralization but in the reality it’s not really decentralized. Yeah, that takes time right for any protocol to truly become decentralized it takes time and I believe there are a lot of decentralized protocols that they’re basically masquerading as decentralized protocols but they’re actually pretty centralized. Yes, like phantom for instance phantom is the more centralized than the Chinese communist party I believe but anyway so it is pretty centralized but not only phantom but most of the project as well except bitcoin.

Bitcoin is probably the decentralized because of the nature of bitcoin and yeah probably bitcoin is the magic but basically anyway I’m not a bitcoin maxi by the way so I have lots of altcoins I have everything so I’m crazy but anyway so about the off-chain so Jonathan approached me at the right time when after this fight with phantom and Jonathan he’s the founder he’s the founder for the whole off-chain and he convinced me eventually he convinced me eventually to start London off-chain London because London is extremely important really for crypto and for well for in general London is like the city of the money and so on well especially before Brexit but still we have a lot of VC capital and all the big money is still here but yeah hopefully it will be now better we will reach the previous heights before Brexit because London was even more important but hopefully we will go back anyway so I started like we started the chat with Jonathan like August and by November I started the first chapter I mean the chapter in London and this was you know we just started like we coming together like in a pub we coming together and talk about crypto so it was very informal you know we are we were just talking about crypto and like bunch of guys girls girls too coming together you know I always promote and encourage girls and female to participate in crypto and be free because it’s very male dominated like every aspect especially crypto but now I think it’s changing actually now we have more and more female yeah for instance next week I will have a new co-founder and she was working for the UN as a regional director for sustainability and now she’s going to help me to build the off-chain London so it’s great but anyway so we started you know coming together in a pub and then eventually we started to grow organically and by February this year we were in Vauxhall in a very nice location we had all of the speakers like a big location like it was sponsored by a nice company and then April we had a big event and then unfortunately the landlord suddenly he increased the rent like 100% so we had to leave the place yeah because you know they think they thought oh this is crypto and we are super rich so then we can increase the rent that’s great yeah yeah so maybe yeah sorry and then we left and then we had to look for a new new location and so on and then eventually I found Microsoft so the last event was was hosted by Microsoft Microsoft itself co-organized with Microsoft so it was great it was epic and now we will do another event in the NFT gallery yeah so basically it’s happening crypto is mainstream and yeah it’s great so so essentially with with off-chain you guys organize events and educate your audience about crypto is that what the problem is yes exactly and we are agnostic so I’m not here to promote Phantom or ICP or any other chain or Solana or whatever but we are like agnostic so we promote everyone I mean we promote the whole crypto space and we want mass adoption really obviously sometimes we need sponsors and these kind of tricky things because if if I can have I avoid if I can I avoid sponsorship and these kind of things obviously we could have sponsors anytime but lots of like sketchy or a ponzi spawn you know ponzi project and I don’t want to sponsor or promote all kind of crap because it’s enough crap in the space without promoting it yeah that’s true that’s absolutely true so you know this is so you you mentioned that you know you guys are in 51 cities right so I do you have like a footprint in Asia as well oh yes yes well we are very strong in like Taipei and China I mean China and lots of location in China and Vietnam, Hong Kong, Singapore I mean everywhere yes so we are I mean I mean I can check the website yeah so it’s very very very USA, Bali, Bangkok, Beijing, Boston yeah we are in lots of places and it’s we will reach 100 countries probably within like 10 months maximum that’s the goal wow that’s that is that is brilliant you know that the kind of you know the fact that you’re able to build a community and sort of sustain it to like 51 different cities that is brilliant in itself so do you like have membership for these chapters like how does that work well yeah good question so basically at the moment we have like telegram groups or what’s up groups or WeChat China prefer like WeChat groups and so on at the moment for instance yeah you can just join and you will be part of the group actually we want to create one in even India as well there’s one guy who might do in India we haven’t done it India obviously India is massive yeah obviously we need India and then and then this kind of even Germany actually we don’t have Germany as in Germany is also very important and India so obviously yeah but we have so it’s very informal at the moment so for instance we don’t have a DAO we don’t have a coin we don’t have anything like this which is good and bad at the same time it’s good in a way because it’s very pure yeah it’s no it’s not monetized yet at all okay obviously in the future this might change like a year time when we want to create like a global brand and with a global partnership and create like a financial background like monetize the whole whole thing which will happen but not at the moment so at the moment there is nothing is no it’s kind of good but the challenge when I organize an event I have to organize the event from zero budget so I have to be like a magician yeah right okay I wonder how you guys do that so do you guys like have collaboration with co-working spaces etc that allow you to sort of organize the events is that how it works well it’s a good question so it’s basically it’s all about connections so with okay I don’t get a salary I don’t get any money out of this or nothing but what I get is the connections really so through the connections we can get if you’re lucky a space like last time Microsoft they really like this so they gave us their venue for free and everything for free it was amazing but obviously I can’t be there always the Microsoft reactor in Old Street so we will be there again but not every month so then I have to look for another space so it’s kind of tricky but in London we have like DLT lounge is another organization I mean I can go there we will go there as well probably at one point and they also provide like free location more or less free and they are good guys but obviously I don’t want to go always the same places and I myself I’m very ambitious I want to go always to the biggest place and the most spectacular space yeah so I’m very ambitious obviously I want to like really like mainstream adoption mainstream adoption for the people. And you know I think this is so important like the community aspect obviously is very fundamental to Web3 as well as just the summation of the right kind of information so what you guys are doing with these events is basically getting the right information out there and getting more people to understand and perhaps would that be correct? Yes that’s right and basically the IRL you know in real life events they are getting more and more popular so that’s really important because you know crypto is full with scams and bots and especially Twitter but not only Twitter so many you know Telegram so many bots like so many beautiful sexy ladies writing to me and it’s not real yeah it’s 99.9% it’s all like fake it’s like all bot yeah yeah that’s a big problem so that’s why it’s important and that’s why it’s helping the off-chain like the events so I can see the people they exist they are real yeah so that’s kind of reassuring to see the people obviously like this is real and yeah so it’s also about the education and also it’s important that events so we provide usually we provide food and drink and everything for free and there’s no tickets so it’s not like an NFT London or an NFT Summit where they charge you like 500 pound or 1000 pound for a ticket it’s free so yeah and we sometimes we do like big events with a very high profile speakers for free so it’s kind of like we create like huge value for the community maybe at one point maybe I can apply for a funding with the Bankless DAO or this kind of organization a Bankless DAO or other DAOs maybe they will be actually happy to to fund us I’m not sure but yeah I’m trying you know I want to think outside of the box yeah so if somebody wants to promote Star Trek in their city or like a new country what is like the process there because you know we have like a very diverse a bunch of listeners and maybe you know to speak somebody’s interest as it has been reminded we don’t have like a chat room and there’s huge so what is the process going about perhaps you know starting a chapter in a new city? Oh well if someone wants to like create a new chapter I mean that’s great we want that to happen and then I’m then happy to connect that person to have a chat with the founder with Jonathan and then we can provide all the support and connections because the main thing really is the connections because we have you know so we have New York so this is really international we have New York, Boston, you know Australia and China and Europe and so on so then we have all the visas and everything yeah and then we would connect the right people for that city and if someone wants to start a new city but we don’t have then we are very eager to support and to find other people as well to start them together and you know we will promote the event and many people will come there for sure so yeah we are very eager to start obviously new chapters. Awesome, probably after this recording I’ll get in touch with you on how to start running you know the capital of India, New Delhi that would be interesting I think there is a lot of a lot of stuff that is happening in between and I think the community aspect is like huge and you guys seem to have you know corrected to quite an extent like I’m just very very impressed with the idea that you guys have chapters and cities that is brilliant like trying to keep it and sustain it I think that takes massive amounts of effort.

Yes, it’s true it’s kind of challenging as well but it’s a great challenge for myself you know I just quit my job like this Monday so since Monday I’m already free I’m already 24-7 in crypto before I had even a full-time job and I was building this off-chain London with a full-time job it was very challenging obviously to have a full-time job like normal job not crypto job normal fiat job yeah normal job but now I’m free and now I have a full energy in crypto. So are you talking about Delhi? New Delhi. Yeah.

That’s fantastic I mean that will be yeah I’m very eager I mean after this conversation I’m just happy to have a call later on to organize with Jonathan and me and you and yeah let’s have a chat yeah that will be great yeah. Yeah that’ll be fantastic I think so you we talked about off-chain quite a bit I would like to tell you I would like you to share with me perhaps what kind of DeFi protocols or we know that they are not really decentralized that is already clear but the DeFi protocols which ones are your favorite? We know that you are very you’re into the you’re into phantom and you’re invested in it but you feel like you know it’s very centralized but are there any other protocols that you know you feel hold a lot of promise like phantom does? Yeah well yeah the DeFi space is very exciting obviously and it’s it’s great and it’s very risky as well in a way for example your phantom phantom they were very early in the DeFi they one of the creator of DeFi space through Andrew and the Cronje guy Andrew Cronje but you know this this DeFi space also it had like a great success in 2019-2020 at the beginning and 2021 but nowadays they got also lots of you know hack and failure and lots of problems that so it’s kind of like a still evolving space when phantom for example phantom started the staking it was even like 40 percent for a short period of time like 48 percent 50 percent APY and then later it became like 25 percent APY but now there is a proposal that we might need to reduce the APY like six percent that will be even lower that will be even lower than the inflation so yeah that will be but but answering your questions well myself at the moment I’m very careful with the DeFi protocols itself so I’m keeping most of the money like a bitcoin or other other altcoins but I actually yeah invest into and work with other projects but probably the best will be to ask these questions my friend because this that other guy David he’s he’s a DeFi expert he that friend of mine so this is the power of off-chain because I know every not everyone but I know many many people for example this guy he’s got a VC based on DeFi so he’s making money out of DeFi and he’s just focusing only on DeFi DeFi only yeah well he knows he knows everything about DeFi and he’s hedging against you know DeFi and yeah he’s doing like he’s making money only out of this my other friend is another VC he’s making money only from NFT so some people specialize on NFT, some people specialize on DeFi and myself I specialize on the community building and also not only community building but like support like fundraising for projects which has DeFi elements. So regarding so and you know I have to follow up presence to this so regarding you mentioned that your strength is community building.

So what do you think are essential to community building in Web3? Like what are the three things that you think must happen if you are trying to build a successful community? Well yeah so many many Web2 projects they or Web2 people they want to become like a Web3 and they are promoting this but sometimes you know for example let’s tell you an example for example it’s very important that the startups so there’s lots of startups even now which is amazing in the bear market lots of startups it’s just kind of funny isn’t it you want to launch a project in a bear market so that’s very brave and very ambitious because even now I’m fundraising for actually three projects and they want to raise money right now which is kind of exciting and kind of brave but anyway so basically just an example so for instance there are VC company who are like raising they want to have startups to to meet with the VCs but so they are targeting like Web3 startups but their own model it’s like a Web2 model because they want to charge like 300 pounds for a two minutes pitch deck and 400 pounds for three minutes and 500 for five minutes and then they will promote it for the VCs and so on but come on a startup they are raising money because they don’t have money yeah otherwise why would they raise money yeah otherwise they wouldn’t raise money if they were they have money so basically it’s kind of crazy yeah so this is like a Web2 model so basically it is the Web3 must be like free in a way so if I support startups if I want to you know make all the startups to pitch to me then I will not charge any money for them because what are we talking about this is nonsense yeah this is crazy because you know the VC they need quality project the VC would die the VC cannot exist without startups isn’t it so that’s crazy so why would I charge a startup for pitching so yeah yeah that is very wrong I think I’ve always felt very strongly like you do about this because you know if a startup had money they wouldn’t really be pitching to raise money so you know asking them to pay money for like a deck or to pitch or just to you know give a product demo that’s abominable I think it’s it’s horrible for the ecosystem as a whole that you know you’re just being the leech you’re trying to reach off these at times very desperate founders who are just trying to keep their company yeah yes unfortunately yes but guess what this their model is still working because we haven’t done I will organize probably a model like a group where the startup can pitch for the big VCs and for free not like they’re paying 500 pound just to to pitch so we we are in we will organize things like a megastar for the startups or something like yeah like Simon I completely agree I think that you know the the entire space is still very unorganized and there is you know when it is organized and there is a business model that comes into play which you know kind of phrase these entrepreneurs so yes there is a lot of work that is you know kind of required there as well so when you again mentioned that there is the community aspect that you know you rely on as your strength and the other aspect is raising funds for startups so how do you go about doing that is it are you putting them in touch with VCs about your network are you like an investment are you in touch with an investment bank or you know if that is something that you’re doing and how can startups get in touch with you if they need your help yeah it’s very complex so myself I’m always looking I’m like a networker I’m like a connector so I’m always looking to connect the right people together so there is a money the money people and there are the talents so if I see some potential collaboration or synergy then I’m always happy to connect for example if a startup coming to me I always happy to to have them even for absolutely free for a limited time like I happy to give them a connection for free like one connect them with Amazon or connect them with a big company for free but once but not like I start to work them 24-7 for free because come on I have also limited time one day so you can’t you know and then I have to always have to say no to many startups because obviously I want to work only with the best one really because it’s like you don’t want to waste your time really either yeah yeah it’s very resource intensive right like yeah huge competition just yeah yeah yeah so there’s a huge competition as well uh yeah so but but anyway we have you know for example I have we have our off-chain London telegram so I’m always very happy if someone wants to you know share what they’re doing or like shielding themselves it’s fine it’s no problem I mean let’s promote or let’s you know let’s I’m always open to to learn about everyone’s activity learn more about everyone’s activity so that’s fine. Oh okay interesting so apart from off-chain what are the communities you think are doing a good job in like building a good network for or a good support system for entrepreneurs and like a great ecosystem or perhaps like a great ecosystem with entrepreneurs mentors VCs investors but apart from off-chain. Yeah so these people usually 95% is all like crypto professionals already so they are you know exchange and NFT project so we have a global NFT group and we have like a global like a general group and also like a trading group and then DeFi group and so on a meme even a meme group which is my favorite because some groups they don’t like you know if I post like memes but there’s the meme you know it’s so important for me because the root the you know the Dejan people the root the root of crypto is coming from this like a meme it’s like a joke yeah but it’s not a joke but yeah it’s it’s like yeah it’s it’s fantastic it’s like doge I don’t have actually dogecoin but yeah it’s like it’s like the from the spirit of yeah but by the way Shiba Inu is my good friend the co-founder of Shiba Inu but I don’t have Shiba Inu either but anyway so it’s mostly like crypto people and so even exchanges many exchange and and so on so yeah it’s it’s crypto people already but obviously we are happy to to have the you know the new people who just want to learn more but I don’t know why but somehow these are all like professionals they are already in the industry they are already working in the crypto space right right okay and uh you know there is there is obviously Octane that is doing a fantastic job at you know building this community with an ecosystem of all kind of stakeholders in the free space uh do you think there are other community builders who are who you know you would you you kind of envy yourself that they are also doing a fantastic job in building their community um yeah I mean for example I am very open and always going to other events so not only our own events obviously I love to connect with people in general in general I love people for example I like if I if I can promote another network like Crypto Monday they are probably the other big big group they are they are they are also they have like 45 countries something like that so they are do a brilliant job and I always going to their event as well if I can if I have the time yeah but they are they are very good as well so yeah we are doing the same thing so we want to you know we want to promote crypto to the masses so yeah so what what I see you know for example just a simple example because you know we want good regulation in the UK in London we want a good crypto friendly regulation and so on and overall global globally as well but what I see that actually we don’t even know to be honest what regulation we want so what we need is more coordination between amongst us we need more coordination because we are even not sure actually what regulation exactly we want right yeah right uh so when it comes to obviously when it comes to regulation then I have to uh talk about you know how the lack of policy in certain countries and actually hurting entrepreneurs who are looking to build right because it kind of creates this very uncertain sort of circumstances for them to be you know just focused on building what is your take on this what is your take on just the policy and which countries you think are getting it right yeah like India you are in India isn’t it and yes I am in India currently yes I travel a lot but right now and they have this crazy like tax super high tax yeah which is not really great and not really encouraging it’s kind of like it’s not sustainable for sure it’s probably they will change it I guess yeah so we are hopeful that you know they will come around and the policy could be a little more the policy when we do see it which is a little more encouraging I was a part of the you know the government body for that was making representations to the government for blockchain now it has been disbanded but you know we are hopeful because uh of those conversations that you know we’ve had so the government is trying to understand but I do think I do understand from their perspective as well that you know they do want to be kind of getting our own echo chamber so we are in the web space and we understand this but then there are you know millions out there who don’t understand crypto and they can fall prey to certain scams or and you know and and struggle basically with their hard-earned money so they do want to perhaps coddle them a little bit and you know make sure they are protected but I think that there are better ways to I do believe that there are better ways to actually go about doing that or rather because if you’re looking at web3 if you’re looking at DeFi then a lot of the responsibility of you if you want to have to do whatever you want with your money then you know you need to be able to shoulder that responsibility as well so I don’t believe that you know the policy makers should coddle users or potential users so much but having said that I do get their point I do think that you know this entire policy thing etc is completely at odds with the very essence of web3 and these you know decentralized yes yes my strategy you know when I talk with the policy makers and the government lobby because I also want a very ambitious I want to create also like a lobby group for us okay like a lobby arm but this is tricky you know because then you create like a lobby arm you can’t create the same way like I created like the off-chain London like you know free you know this very noble principle free everything free with a lobby group it’s impossible to create a lobby group without funding without money that’s not possible so for the lobby group you need money that’s 100 sure even if you have all the connection of the world you need still you still need money for sure but that’s the nature of lobbying you know but anyway so about the taxation and what I do with the government I always involve into the conversation like economists but normal traditional trade fine normal economists traditional economists not only crypto so not only crypto people but also the people from outside because they are part of the conversation anyway even if we like it or not but that’s inevitable so yeah we have to involve them no matter what yeah yeah that’s that is so we absolutely have to you know find a way to find perhaps a middle ground so that you know both both these the traditional financial system as well as this new parallel economy that they’re creating they can they can work in tandem because there is it’s not going to be one or the other yes yeah so if you can involve them that might have help us so they can understand more where we’re coming from yeah it’s it’s exciting obviously we are in an exciting times and you know we’re always saying we’re always saying like we are early but actually we are we are really early actually it’s like a meme like a meme you know but we are actually early very early yeah I think you know crypto and web 3 and people are in it very still very very early because there are people who don’t understand the very basics and there is nothing wrong with that because there is a lot happening and this is something so new but you know there are so many people who don’t understand the basics that makes you kind of realize that yes we are very early you know it’s very easy for us to get into as I said our own echo chambers and think that you know we have like we are closer to mass adoption but we are nowhere close to that and for that a lot of things need to change in that way before we actually you know can knock on the door of mass adoption yes yes well yeah we need for instance we need ease of use it’s still like you know metal mask and all that it’s still like clumsy to use sometimes and you have to be like a nerd and so on obviously these things must be so easy so easy so everyone can use it not like you have to be like a vitalik or you have to be like a genius to use them yeah the interface so yeah it’s so much more to do for example I’m not a nerd I’m the benchmark if I can use it then everyone can use yeah right yeah so no a lot needs to change I think I completely agree I feel that you know right now we’re at that stage where perhaps email was in the early 90s right not everybody was using it but the entire process is a little complicated for anybody to even think of going about doing it like you know but later and so was the case with the internet not everybody was using it not everybody could use it or think of you know a utility that will actually of the internet that will actually help them right so not everybody was online but slowly but surely the UI improved and now we’ve come to a point that internet is indispensable to everybody even my grandparents so you know everybody is online and you don’t need to necessarily understand how the internet works to be able to derive value from it and I think we actually needs to be there that you know you don’t need to understand how blockchain web 3 protocols d5 protocols how do they work for you to be able to derive value so you know you I see a world where it will be completely seamless and you know your problem is getting resolved and that is why the user is utilizing your protocol and nothing else and they don’t really need to understand the tokenomics and you know have a maybe not even have a meta mask maybe you know that it’s just to ease the use or the UX problem so because I do think that web 2 has a huge UX problem in general that you know users just just don’t know how to there is a huge learning curve and we need to resolve that before we can you know get to mass adoption.

Yeah for instance my friend Harry, Harry Horsfog is the founder for Zebu Live. Zebu Live is like they will have a big event in 20 seconds. Yeah I think there is an event right now as well right probably in September sometime there is an event in London I think.

Yes they will do this big event and this guy is telling me that not only me is telling usually that before in the in the 2000 the companies they had to have like a digital strategy and like a digital presence on the internet it was a must but now we are heading towards a different age where the companies they will have they must have like a web free web free strategy and this is really the the buzzword so all the companies who wants to survive they will have eventually they will need a web free presence and web free strategy and that’s what we that’s the opportunity ahead of us and capitalize on it. Yeah absolutely I think we’re kind of on the same page there. Okay so you know I’ve just seen the time I think that you know we’re running short of it so now coming to my last two questions.

What according to you and this has been such a good conversation that I really just can see the time but yeah so I would like to understand what are your recommendations so that it comes to you know places from where people can actually glean about web3, blockchain and crypto and get the right kind of information. So you know would you like to recommend any books or any hot leaders any podcasts that you know you tune into and do you think that those kind of you know give out the right information and are listening to them there as well? Yeah that’s a very good question. Well some like hidden bookstore like my friend for instance my friend in Barcelona Ivan, Ivan Mary he likes to go to London to some secret bookstore and in the books bookshops you can buy like some secret books which explaining web3 and metaverse and the metaverse like in a very detailed in amazing way but myself well YouTube channel obviously there are lots of YouTube channels but you know is and podcasts and you know all of them but myself it’s always good to have like a community so not only off-chain because yeah of course I’m getting my information from off-chain from the community like first-hand information probably that’s the best when you have like an alpha leak like an insider information and that’s really the best but obviously not only off-chain but there are other I’m part of also other telegram groups and other groups where I know those people for many years and I get the information like this way so you know through the people obviously through the people like first-hand information really like what they say or what they what they share so you know if you know people like you know those people already for years so then if that people if that person share with you something then I will take a look actually what’s happened.

Right, yeah that makes sense, that seems like good advice. So coming to you know the absolute last question that I asked everybody who comes on the show, if we have people from web2 and you know who are appearing in from the outside and they’re looking that they can get into web3 what would be your two cents for them to start living on blockchain? So they want to start blockchain. Yeah, if they want to get into web3 space for you know get involved in crypto somehow but they’re still like you know kind of afraid because it’s from the outside web3 seems very you know it’s a niche, it’s very assortative not everybody you know sort of seems to think that it’ll be too techy and it’ll be too nerdy and they might not be able to make it in this space what would be your two cents for them to just take that leap of faith and get into web3? Well of course so join off-chain whatever chapter they live in or join off-chain and then let’s have a chat obviously is really is a good advice really because then we can connect them with lots of companies lots of VC lots of you know lots of industry professionals basically this will be like a good start but obviously it’s like web3 is really like they have to be careful as well because really it’s like a minefield because even just you know I just spoken like a couple of days ago with one of my friends actually I just met with the guy he’s we are going to the same school we’re bringing our son to the same school and the guy told me that he was just scammed three months ago like 25 000 pounds he just lost 25 000 pounds because some scammers convinced me that he needs to invest money coinbase in some project into coinbase but it was actually a scam they didn’t invest anything they just took his money basically yeah so these scams so if you don’t know you know if you don’t know what you’re doing there’s a good chance that someone will try to scam you so you know in crypto really they have to educate themselves first so if you know there’s so many ways that they try to scam you they want to you know offer you some amazing group that they give you like every day like a profit if something is too good to be true that’s probably not true so you know these kind of things right there so yeah they have to re-educate themselves to avoid this constant you know wave of scammers and ponzi and yeah they have to be very careful obviously and but but you know there are like good communities and dow and and so on and if they you know find the right people then maybe they will not lose too much money but probably maybe it’s inevitable to you know go through this special period when you pay the learning fee you pay the price yeah well yeah that’s true that’s true you know that is I think good advice that you know you have to kind of learn before you get your hands dirty a little bit because otherwise there is a good chance that you may get scammed so yeah absolutely because I think again this industry is very new it’s in its infancy and you know there are the good ones as well but the bad ones obviously they you know they get more publicity but that doesn’t mean that you know this entire industry is like is full of scamsters it’s just that you know the bad elements are there I think in every industry and you know you need to be a little careful where you’re putting in your money yes yes but yeah they they can you know join not only but other other influencers to check on on the twitter and the youtube and the telegram and yeah just buy if I just give one advice not financial advice obviously if they just buy some bitcoin and hold it for two years in 2024 like me or end of 2024 it’s pretty easy to see it will be like hundred thousand five five x at least five x absolutely easiest yeah unless oh obviously unless if there is a big war with china taiwan then then it’s then anything is possible then then that’s the risk if there is some unexpected war like nuclear war then we are screwed yeah we don’t want that obviously hopefully that will not happen yeah yeah nobody’s gonna start there then then everybody’s screwed I think otherwise we’re going to the moon because the bitcoin bitcoin halving is coming up within two years the next halving right yes so I do think that you know I’m very optimistic as well and obviously this is not financial advice as you said but there is uh you know if you do want to start then starting with something like a og token like you know a bitcoin uh would be a better bet than you know perhaps getting into alts immediately well you know bitcoin is just the safest obviously with the old coins you have a chance like bigger profit like 50 times 50x or even 100x even myself I’m I’m invested into a new layer one protocol like foil protocol foil network and I’m promoting that coin and that’s like a big potential like 100x 1000x but also there is a potential that they go bust so there’s a potential that you lose all your money with bitcoin that’s not really the bitcoin is like 95 chance that it’s really happening yeah so but the other ones is more risky riskier a lot a lot riskier so that’s the challenge absolutely bitcoin is always the safest so it’s good to have some money bitcoin always just to yeah this should be on the safe side or on the side of caution yeah but obviously it’s good if you have some moon moon bag as well which you you can have the 100x and 1000x and so on the big money the real big money but obviously these are risky riskier risk your bets absolutely okay this has been a really great conversation Daniel thank you so much for taking out the time to speak to me and any parting thoughts before we wrap this up oh yeah well it was a pleasure thank you Tarusha it was a pleasure I’m happy to come back again and start to actually talk about my portfolio and what we are doing and building but anyway yeah it was a pleasure and the the final thought will be like yeah be safe and obviously never never invest all your money into one project that’s the best way to get wrecked and I’ve done it myself at one point I invested like 95 percent of my money into one project I still have my coins you know I have this I have this principle I never sell for a loss and this is a very good principle but very expensive as well it’s very expensive and you got notified it’s very expensive but sometimes it’s great actually but yeah so stay safe yeah that’s the final good parting those are good parting thoughts thank you so much Daniel thank you it was a pleasure thank you very much bye

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