Transcription Episode 44

Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of Living on Blockchain. Today we are speaking to Pratik Gauri. Pratik is the CEO of FIRE.

FIRE is an L1 solution which is a sustainable blockchain and keeping in mind the United Nations Sustainability Goals in mind while it is building its absolutely brilliant L1. It has recently gone live with its testnet and we are very excited to interview Pratik and understand his vision for FIRE. Hi Pratik, thank you so much for taking out the time to speak to us.

How are you doing today? I’m good, thanks Tarusha for having me. It’s a pleasure. Likewise, it’s an absolute pleasure that you could both take out the time and make this happen.

So for our listeners, can you tell us a little about yourself and your background? So the background is, you know, so I’m building something around the fifth industrial revolution. So FIRE also, you know, the L1 blockchain ecosystem that I’m building is also centered around the theme of fifth industrial revolution. So it’s a concept that I started promoting about, you know, more than 10 years back to prove the thesis that you can actually make more money if you do more good to the world and that sustainability is going to define profitability.

So, you know, that’s something that I wanted to prove and to prove that on a larger scale I started building companies. So I started my first company when I was 16, sold it when I was 20. It was an edutech company.

Started my second, third and I built eight companies before FIRE, all of them around the same theme of the fifth industrial revolution and all of them around the theme of United Nations Sustainable Development Goals. So, you know, the 17 global goals of sustainable development which are about edutech, education or, you know, climate or health or renewable, solar. So those, you know, gender equality.

So those have been my sweet spots of, you know, building companies and again proving the message that you can actually do good to the world and then end up making more money. So I was able to, you know, impact tens of millions of people, generate tens of millions of dollars and was able to prove this thesis. But, you know, then I wanted to scale it to a billion plus people and enable financial inclusion for one and a half billion people who don’t currently have access to banking and credit and that’s when I ventured into, you know, Web3 and blockchain and that’s when I started FIRE last year in, you know, August 2021.

So what we did was we basically wanted to plug all the gaps that Web3 industry currently have, one of the big ones being sustainability and of course others being around it and start an ecosystem to basically, you know, transition the world from a for-profit economy in fourth industrial revolution to a for-benefit economy in the fifth industrial revolution. So to enable that transition, layer one of course made the most sense because if anybody builds on top of us, whether it’s a government or a fortune 500 company or any corporate or any developer or anybody, then we can actually decide the way validation process happens and through that we can influence the way the world will work in the future and the future of the world that we, you know, envision is a more greener and an abundant world. So to enable that transition, we started building a layer one ecosystem and now we’ve built, so think of us as a competitor to any layer one, whether it’s a Ethereum or a Solana or a Binance, but the difference being that we have an innovative secret sauce in every ecosystem component.

So when you talk about our layer one, it’s, you know, it has a mathematical algorithm inbuilt into consensus. We don’t use proof of work or proof of stake. We use something called proof of benefit, you know, which we have built where we have, yeah, which we have, where we have scraped data from about, you know, 900 million data points and that based, so 900 million data points is fed into the algorithm and the output is an ESD score and that actually also carries a small weightage, you know, apart from nominated proof of stake in the consensus.

So it’s a sustainable nominated proof of stake if I were to put it that way. So, you know, that’s something which we’ve done and if you talk about other ecosystem components, we will be coming up with our own cards. We’re coming up with a, you know, wearable fashion device and C-enabled device.

So, I mean, a lot of fintech products will of course be launched in the coming months to boost the utility of the token that we’ll be launching. There will be a lot of, you know, we are already seeing a lot of adoption. We are one of the first companies who actually have government signed on even before launch of testnet.

So we’re launching testnet on the 30th of November this month, but we have, we’re working with government of India, we’re working with the US, we’re working with Nigerian government and multiple others. So, so, you know, that’s in a nutshell of what I’m trying to build. That sounds wonderful.

You know, so you’ve talked about how you guys are, you know, different from the, you know, various other elements and basically it’s on the basis of how you are calculating, you know, proof of stake or proof of work. And now, you know, you’ve coined something called proof of benefit. So is this something that, you know, you guys have created on your own or was this a concept that was already there and, you know, you guys have executed it well? No, it’s a patented thing.

It’s, it’s something that we’ve created on our own. So, so a lot of research went into it and did something which is also one of our biggest secret sources. And that also gave us, that’s a big part of how we got the valuation in our last funding round as well, because it’s very innovative.

It actually will change the way blockchain industry actually works because it will just, you know, give sustainability, a different flavor and a flavor where if you are not sustainable, then you might, if you consume a lot of electricity, for instance, then you might not get, you know, might not be able to, you know, make money as a validator. So that’s, that’s something that we’re trying to encourage. Okay.

So you said that, you know, this is a patented concept and technology that, you know, you guys are utilizing. So is this open source or is this something that you don’t, that you’re keeping as a secret source for yourself? For now, it’s a secret source, but very soon we’ll make it open source. Because we want other people to, once we launch a test net, it will actually become open source.

We want others to use this. So it’s going to be open source. Right.

Okay. This is a beautiful concept because, you know, I think a lot of L1 solutions as well as L2 solutions, they get a lot of thoughts around the energy utilization and how energy intensive this entire process of blockchain technology is. And that is why there are a lot of naysayers who, you know, who, who have an issue with, with the tech, but when it comes to something like this, and, you know, when you’re creating a sustainable L1 solution, what is the way forward perhaps for the existing L1 or L2 solutions? Like, how do you see them competing with something like this, which kind of takes away that one particular, you know, disadvantage, so to say, that they bring to the table as against yours? So what we’ve done is see all of us already know that most of the dApps are currently existing on Ethereum and they’ve now moved from, and they are moving towards a POS model where now the problem with POS that we see is, you know, if you just encourage a POS validation, that basically means that the rich will keep getting richer and the poor will keep getting poorer.

Although you decrease 99% of energy consumption, but, but that’s the problem. It also brings a layer of centralization, right? It brings a layer of, correct. Yeah.

So now what we’ve done is we have called, so, you know, the way our chain works, it’s a, you know, a base substrate layer where through two, three oracles, we have plugged in EVM compatibility and we have also plugged in the sustainability quotient that we have. So because we are EVM compatible, most of the projects we have already, you know, in talks to actually put them to fire, you know, who want to be sustainable. So of course there will be new ones building on us, but existing ones can also actually in a, you know, in a few hours or a few days can actually end up building on us.

So that’s also something that we are, we will try to encourage. All right. So is this like a virus, some sort of a bridge or are you EVM compatible already? Or do you have a particular SDK? Like if somebody is say building on an Ethereum right now and they have a existing solution, how do they report to a fire? So there’s a bridge.

Yeah. Yeah. So there’s a bridge which they can use.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We’ve, we have a bridge in place.

Okay. So, and that bridge is, and that will just take one token. It doesn’t require two tokens.

All right. Okay. Okay.

Brilliant. So, you know, are you done with the auditing process and all the grind that comes with creating any sort of a Web3 platform for the bridge or for the L1 for your testnet? We are going through extensive auditing right now because actually, to be honest, we are launched it is November 30, but we were ready with the product in, you know, in the first week or the second week of October. So since then we’ve been actually doing some audits, internal audits are going on.

And then of course, after, you know, internal audits, demos, we have actually plugged in some external players also to give us suggestions and, you know, opinions on how the product looks, will it work well? What’s the, what are the kind of bugs we are expecting? And we are anyways launching testnet. So it will be open for the community to start using it and building on it. And then we want to actually take our own sweet time to see all the bugs that we will see.

Because look, I mean, any testnet, it’ll be wrong to say that we’ll not have bugs. I mean, of course, I love to say that, you know, we won’t, but I think we’ll still want the community to find all the problems that currently exist and we’ll have to correct them and then we’ll go to mainnet. So I think that process of about six months is intentionally kept to make sure we eliminate everything.

Yeah. But yeah, but the internal audit is in place and everything looks good for now. The suggestions I keep getting from the, although I’m, I mean, of course we have a large tech team in place.

I’m not a techie myself, but they, but they’re very confident and we are, you know, yeah, we’ll, we’ll roll it out on the, on the planned date. So there are no changes with the date. Awesome.

Awesome. If you don’t mind me asking who is auditing you externally, which firm is? So we are currently working with blockchain Australia. Yeah.

And, and a couple of more. I think my tech team actually will be able to give you a more sense, but blockchain Australia is one of the firms that, that we’re currently working with very, very closely and we are working with, so what we’ve also done is we, we are working with three firms right now and all of them come from different geographies, having different people on board. So for instance, blockchain Australia has about 24 very senior tech folks, you know, so, and, and most of them are from Australia.

And then on the other hand, we are working with another external company in, in UAE so that we get our, so basically what we, what, you know, I always felt that, you know, talent is very distributed, right? So we wanted to make sure we get opinions of people from across the world. So of course we have some Indians in place, you know, and then we have people from Australia, then it’s very diversified right now, who are externally auditing us. And, but blockchain Australia is one of the major ones.

Yeah. Brilliant. Brilliant.

So can you tell me a little about the team behind FHIR? Like, you know, I know you, we’ve been out there for a while, but a little bit about the team, how many people are like the core team members and how many team members do you have right now currently working full time on FHIR? So full time, look, I mean, we’ve been, so if you were to talk about on the business side and internally, you know, on FHIR payroll, it’s about 120 plus, it’s 123 or 24. It’s somewhere in, I think it’s 123 or 124. I mean, Khushi, my HR would know exactly, but I think it’s 123.

So that’s on the, that’s completely with FHIR. Then we, of course, on the tech side, we, we use, you know, a couple of external vendors, right. To help us with the tech.

So if you were to put in all the consultancies and all the, everything in place, then through the vendors, we have access to more than, you know, 300, 400 developers, you know, and so those are the, and, and we are, of course, one of the biggest clients. So, you know, when I say we have access, we really have access. I mean, when I, if I need to get, you know, something done at 4am in their time, I can get something done at 4am in their time.

So they’re as good as having them in-house, but yeah, I mean, they, they are external to us, meaning they’re on a retainer. So I can’t call them, you know, employees, employees of FHIR, but of course we, we pay them a good retainer to make sure they, they work. So then if you were to plug all of that in, we would, you know, say, you know, 120 in-house and then, you know, about 300, 400 externally.

So yeah, pretty large team. So people who build FHIR I, as I told you, the journey started in August last year. So it was me with, along with another very good friend of mine, Prateek.

So who actually leads the product and the research side right now. So, so he’s also been in this space for a long, long time. So he and I actually started and he actually conceptualized a lot of the technical pieces.

So like, for instance, we also have something called inheritance module in place. Now that’s also patented, where if your wallet, you know, stays dormant for six months, then you can actually, you know, port your money or, you know, that gets transferred to wallets of your choice. Then we have, you know, we’ve incorporated something called reverse transactions because, you know, we saw that there was a lot of money being lost where you send the money to a wallet and then you can’t return it.

So we have also incorporated reverse transactions into FHIR, where if you send the money incorrectly, then you can take it back. Then we have, you know, something called interoperability. I know some of the, you know, companies or L1s are now starting to do it, but we’ve also done that where, you know, if you have Bitcoin or, you know, somebody has Ethereum, so you can actually transact if you have a, you know, if a FHIR L1.

And that’s also something which we intentionally built because, you know, the world, the way forward for finances in this one will also be CBDCs. You’ve already seen India is launching one. Other countries will also launch soon.

So I think interoperability needs to be in place for any layer one to work with CBDCs. Otherwise, you just can’t because otherwise, you know, one CBDC can’t interact with the other CBDC of a different country. So we’ve incorporated that also.

So in terms of the team, I think so two of us started mostly. Then we, of course, had a research team in place initially, which is currently still with us, who wrote the research papers, right? So, and who, you know, put the idea to, I mean, basically put the idea to paper. So research team did it.

And then there’s a large tech team. And then now there’s a big adoption team in place. Then, of course, there’s a big marketing team.

Yeah. So now the team has become pretty big. After the funding round, I think they’ve become pretty big.

Yeah. So we, I think I didn’t speak about the funding rounds, but yeah, we’re well funded. So we raised 21 million last year in October, and then we now just secured a hundred million in about a couple of months back.

So, so yeah. Hey guys, see, I think it’s a well known fact that to develop an L1 or build on it, you need a word chest and you guys have the word chest and it’s the wear market. So I think it’s the best time for you guys to build and really work towards adoption.

And talking about adoption, I think, you know, if any L1 would require you know, a lot of developers to basically build on their chain, you have that army of developers, but how are you incentivizing these guys to, you know, perhaps keep building on it? The grants program of course is one, but more than just grants, it’s kind of an incubators program. So we started an incubators program where not only we give you access to see, I mean, we’ve been through the grind, we’ve, we’ve been through the journey. So we know what it takes to at least where we are right now.

So what we’ve done is we know, I mean, I have seen, I mean, and you would have seen, you know, in the market that currency exists, you’ve seen people having a lot of money, then also them getting bust, right? Then also them going out of market in overnight. So I think, you know, if you’re running a layer two protocol, if you’re running a layer one or anything in blockchain space, I think it’s very important to have three types of capital ready. Otherwise you cannot succeed.

And those are relationship capital, human capital, and financial capital. People often say, if you have money, then you’ll succeed in the market. But I completely disagree because you’ve seen so many players go out of the market, you know, irrespective of how much money they had.

So in our incubator program, what we do is we basically lend our whole structure to them. So we of course give them a grant, which goes in the form of USDT or BUSD or a stable, any stable, and then it’s a hybrid between that and FIRE tokens. Then we also are giving them access to our whole community and access to our whole relationship orbit, then access to other funds, venture capital funds, if they might need them.

So the whole community or the whole FIRE is there for them. So that is something that we have already started in place. And we have already, you know, incorporated 12 projects into it.

And you know, mind you, we haven’t launched So that’s something that we’ll be very, you know, and there’s a specific team in place now, who’s running the incubation program of FIRE. So if you can be an existing builder on any other existing L1, or you can be a new builder, or a new technology guy, we’re ready to onboard you and help you and navigate you through the whole journey of, you know, building and then raising funds or, you know, getting access to a bigger community, all of that, because we have all of that in place, right? So, so that’s something that we’ve already incorporated. You can be a new techie also who doesn’t know how to, who doesn’t know anything about a rust or a substrate or solidity.

And if you’re a web 2 developer, we’ve also started something called a digital web 3 university. And that’s happening, that’s already started to happen where we onboard you, we fund your entire first three months, we teach you, I mean, our coders, actually, because we have so many devs, I told you, so they teach you how to code on web 3. And then after that, either we hire you in FIRE, or, you know, some of our competitors, we hire you or you end up building on top of us, and we’ll give you a grant. So there are a lot of exit options out of the three month program that we have.

So, so one is a digital university and the other is an incubator program. So both of them are in place. Awesome.

And how does one go about like applying for this or just for the advantage of helplessness? So it’s on website, you can just go and apply. I apply through that. Yeah.

Or otherwise you can, I mean, we are pretty active on social media, you can actually reach out to us. Either you can just apply, or you can write an email to contact C-O-N-T-A-C-T at, you know, or you can just, you know, send us a note on LinkedIn, anybody from FIRE. Wow.

Awesome. Awesome. This is so good.

You guys are so open to getting new people on board and you are actually giving back to the community by ensuring that there are more people that are adopting to Web3 and by actually contributing value to your journey. So yeah. Yeah.

Thanks also, Tarusha, because you need to realize that there is a lot of skepticism in the market with what happened to Luna and what happened to FTX, right? So, I mean, people, I mean, we’ve been in the space for a long time, right? But people who just entering the space and were very talented. So I particularly think that, you know, this could be a time where we might lose a lot of those people who can be potential, you know, Web3 builders, but they might not just start building because they’re scared that, you know, what’s happening in the market. So I think we as, you know, people who’ve been in the space, it’s our, I think if you have, if you have an incubator program, it’s, it just makes it, makes life easy for them.

So that’s also part. Yeah. Well, this is brilliant.

I think, you know, I think we can brainstorm about this a little later, but I do think that more value can be added by bringing together a lot of these build programs and incubator programs so that a lot of good quality startups can actually, you know, get the relevant support that they need. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

And we’d love to, in fact, I know that you also run a wonderful company for this. So we’d love to, you know, speak to you also on how we can do this together and how you can bring your resources also to what you’re trying to do. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Always here to help. So, you know, we’ve touched upon FTX and the Lunar crash.

And so I would love to, because now, you know, we can’t ignore the elephant in the room. It’s already here. So what are your thoughts about this entire FTX debacle? Look, I think now they’ve already started to release a proof of reserves.

So I think Binance did it. And I think Kucoin also did it. But I think, so I think this would have been done long back, which didn’t, which didn’t happen, which was a big reason why both of them overnight, you know, whatever happened.

So I think regulation is a, I think is a big thing, which is needed now in Web3. I know most of the people who are deep into crypto think regulation, then how are you being decentralized? But, you know, I now have, we’ve been in the space for long to kind of figure out that is just that a big enough argument to say, okay, let’s not, you know, have a regulation in place. It doesn’t need to be, it can, it can be, you know, a DAO system, a DAO kind of regulation.

But, you know, there needs to be some regulation because if you look at the flip side, right, if you don’t have any regulation, then in one night or in one hour, a lot of my friends, you know, lost millions of dollars, right? I mean, and then some of them, and I mean, I’m not talking even about people who, and there’s some people who just entered the Web3 space and they just made like, say somebody just made like, say, you know, $2,500 and they lose the $2,500 in one minute. So imagine the impact that those people are having right now. So then there’s definitely a need of regulation.

Now, what the regulation could look like, I think we are also starting in FIRE, something called, you know, a policy draft division, where we will be working, you know, with other of other competitors that we have and other players we have to come up, we all can come together to come up with some sort of structure, which could be appealing to the community, which says, okay, we are decentralized in a way, but also there is some sort of regulation so that it doesn’t harm a layman who’s entering, right? So it’s just so bad right now what’s happened, because I know so many people who I’ve been receiving nonstop texts on is Web3 even the future now people are starting to question that. So there’s a lot of skepticism in the market, and that needs to go away. And that can only go away through a regulation process.

So I think there needs to be a some sort of consortium that needs to be formed from all the big elephants, they need to form a consortium and come together and say, okay, we will protect your money and we will protect your data. Because if you can’t protect consumer money, and then there is no point of running an exchange or any protocol. So that I think absolutely.

Yeah, I think so that’s the way forward. We will be going to initiate it very, very soon. And we’re going to invite other people also to join the movement.

Yeah, I think it’s very imperative. We were talking about it the other day as well, right? You and I that I think, obviously, we want to be a performance for decentralization, but decentralization to not, you know, bottle down to say absolute anarchy, and no accountability. As an industry, there can be self regulation.

I’m not saying that, okay, you know, government entities have to come in and start regulating because I strongly believe that policy is very iterative. And I feel that policy catches up the technology. So I don’t think that even if every single country on this planet is able to create a policy around crypto or agree on a certain set of standards, it would still be very relevant, because it will be dated, you know, by the time it actually gets passed and becomes a legislation or becomes like the rule of law, it will become dated.

So it is very important that as an industry, we come together, as you said, you know, create a consortium, perhaps, and create some standards that absolutely must be followed, be it, you know, proof of reserves, or any such, you know, standardization process, I think, would really create like a level playing field. And also, because now we are in that phase where we are looking for greater adoption in the market, I think nothing will, you know, queue in more adoption than putting some comfort in the end user’s mind. Yeah, I completely agree with you on that.

And that’s also something so you know, we as I mentioned, right, so on one side, we are going to every you know, we’re going to colleges across the world and sponsoring hackathons and encouraging people to join the web three movement and become builders and, you know, build on layer ones. And on the other hand, when you see these kind of news, right, like you lose a big community in an hour, right? So think of it from that point also, which is very sad. And also, I’ve seen, you know, because of a few players, right? And I mean, look, this is a new space.

And in any space, in fact, still, do you think there are people who are not doing wrong stuff in web one and web two? Definitely, there are but right now, because there’s such mature markets, the big players, you know, call the shots in what’s happening in web three is because we’ve made it decentralized, even if a smaller player makes a mistake, it actually spirals to everybody. And it, it creates a domino effect and people end up feeling the effect of it. So we need to definitely, you know, think of a way through a consortium on how we can counter the, you know, the negative malpractices that are happening with some players, because of course, like some players, I know, they’re doing so well, they’re working hard to encourage adoption, they’re trying to bring the community together, they have built some crazy innovative products.

So those people should not those people should definitely, you know, not feel that, you know, because of one or two players, we are we are getting affected. So there definitely needs to be a regulation. Yeah, I think you’re completely right.

You know, I think they’re very incestuous as an industry, simply because, like, we are a very small industry, and web three is in its infancy. And everybody is somehow, you know, related in some way or the other with other projects. And as you mentioned that, you know, there are bad players in every industry is that our industry is so small, that any bad ripple causes like a tsunami, perhaps, which might not happen in the other industries, because they are now at a certain level of maturity.

Yeah, 100% agreed with you. Yeah, what do you think can be done like actively apart from say, you know, as we’ve talked about saying, setting standards for self regulation? What other things do you think can be done to instill more maturity in this space? I think one should be like we mentioned, like certain guidelines or policies set by say a regulatory DAO, or some players coming together. That’s definitely one.

I think the second is, you know, before you basically make a project really famous, right? When you say because in web three, I’ve also seen, you know, anybody comes in the market and does something crazy, right? We think, Oh, wow, what a big deal. And that happens, because also, it’s a new market. But that currently doesn’t happen in web one and web two.

So I think we need serious, you know, serious players from web to see as much as web three, you know, players who are most of them in web, you know, most of the people who kind of I would say done well in web three, they’re young, right? And with yeah, I mean, see, I’m also young, but that also, there’s a you know, they we need more responsible players in web three now, which basically means that when you see boards of web three companies, right, we need to bring some traditional players in as much as you might say, you know, we’re not we’re not going to bring them in, but you need that, right? Because they’ve been through the grind. I mean, web one and web two also it took long years to become mature and stable. So they’ve already seen that wave, right? They’ve already written that wave.

So why would you discount that? Why would you say we don’t want them? Well, I think a one big thing which could work would be to bring very, very strong traditional players from web one and web two and make them enter web three, make them believe in web three and sit on boards of some companies and help navigate the journey. I mean, who knows if some very strong web one web two players would have been on the board of FTX, it might not have happened. I’m not saying it might have, right? So yeah, no, it’s actually shocking that they didn’t have like a board at all.

Yeah, exactly. Right. So why I mean, and so why don’t we get those kind of people and we’ve already started to do it.

So if you see the board of fire, I definitely when I started, I was of the opinion that I want as much as I wanted to be decentralized, I definitely want to get expertise and thought leadership of very strong people from web one and web two. So we have people from PwC, we have people from McKinsey, we have people from Christie’s, we have people from consumer companies like Louis Vuitton. We have very, very strong, we have like people from I’m in the founder.

So we have really, you know, we are getting billionaires from web one and web two into web three and making them see it’s new for them all. So right. So but the good thing is when you tell them, oh, this is happening, they can come to solutions far quickly than what you know, you and I can because we are young, right? So we can say, oh, you know, a lot of web three, you know, what I’ve seen, you know, all the 30 year olds in web three, what they say is, you know, three years experience in crypto is as good as 30 years in traditional finance.

Okay, fine. I might not agree that I think, you know, experience really matters. I think, you know, you are in a new industry, you can’t say that, okay, three years worth of experience here is 30 there.

No, like those two things are not equivalent. Like, yeah, obviously. What I have done is I bought both I bought, if you see my board, I’m getting some crypto billionaires on one side, and then I think traditional players, and then I also people from government.

So as you know, I know, again, there’s a big things big saying that, you know, you know, you should not talk with government. Well, I have never believed in it. I think, I mean, my goal was to impact a billion plus people.

And that’s why blockchain industry was started, right? So it’s not about what you think it’s about what the end goal should be. And the end goal is to enable financial inclusion, the end goal is to, you know, involve one and a half billion people who don’t have access to banking credit. That’s the whole point of defy why was decentralized banking started right to bring those people in.

And now whatever it takes to bring those people in, I would go to them, I don’t have any ego problems, I would say, Okay, help me out. And, and I think government, if you work with the government, it really helped in getting adoption really quickly, because they have access to people. And if you can do that, and in the end, the goal is to impact people, right? It’s not a that’s why the industry exists.

So, you know, I think a more open minded approach is what is needed. And a big problem, why that’s not happening is because most of the people are young, and they are not ready to accept that web one and web two can be huge contributors to web three, I think. So it’s most more the problem is in the mind, right? So that’s why I’m saying a consortium DAO system needs to happen through regulation, and there needs to be certain guidelines.

Otherwise, everybody will think, Oh, I’m going to do whatever I want to do. Because Oh, it’s because people are confusing decentralization and ownership to saying, you know, I’m going to do whatever I want. Nobody can say anything.

Well, that you are impacting the end user negatively. Yeah, absolutely. No, what you said, you know, I think, see, experience can never be discounted.

I think, you know, it is always going to be a mix of web one web two experienced guys who can really set the path for web three entrepreneurs doesn’t like, it doesn’t curtail perhaps the innovation, which is, I think that, you know, that is the kind of fear that web three entrepreneurs would be getting in somebody from web two, maybe they’ll curtail the innovation, and they don’t understand the technology well. But it needs to be a balance, you know, for your board or for your advisors, there needs to be a balance there to make sure that this industry is moving in the right direction. We can’t just have, as you said that, you know, decentralization cannot be equated with the wild wild west that anybody is doing absolutely anything that they want.

And with no, you know, not thinking to the kind of consequences it might have for the end user. Because the reason of that all of us, you, me, and you know, people listening in here are hopefully looking at blockchain and web three, and this technology and we are working here is because there is there is a solid reason that that decentralization can bring in a certain evolution in the way our systems function, and the way certain industries are performing. And that is like the beauty.

It’s not just in the financial world, it’s, it’s across sectors. So we need to remember that. But we also need to sort of ensure that we are giving ample respect and ample due respect to people who have the right experience.

I agree with you 100%. I think we are completely on the same page. Yeah, I mean, look, if you and I can be on the same page on just one podcast, right? So imagine a DAO system, where you have like a 51% voting process similar to a validation process, right? And that regulation decides what you can do and what to see.

I mean, there will be a sense of ownership and decentralization will be like you can’t do this, even if you can define what you can do to make sure people don’t get affected with money and data. I think those are the two big pieces where the problems are. So if you can make sure the problem doesn’t, you know, happen to end user, I think that’s enough.

And then you’re talking about more adoption, right? Because look, I mean, Web3 adoption currently it might I mean, look, in terms of money, you can say it’s a two and a half, three trillion dollar market. And I am being one of the strongest believers of Web3. I think you can’t actually go to 10-15 trillion without getting people right without getting more adoption.

And to get more adoption. Yeah. And for to get that kind of adoption, I mean, look, you can spend any amount of money.

I mean, as an L1, I can say, you know, like if I give 100 people, you know, any amount of grants, if they don’t believe in the whole concept of Web3 and these kinds of incidents keep happening, they are not going to build on us. Like I know that for a matter of fact, because they’re going to get scared and run away. So I mean, you need to make sure.

Yeah. Ultimately, I think all industries are led by emotions, right? All markets are, all industries are because people and human beings are at the center of it. And human beings, we are more emotional than anything else.

You’d like to think that, okay, we are, you know, we’ll be done on logic, but that is mostly not like always the case. So what you said is absolutely right. Like probably bringing in a DAO model for, you know, some kind of self-regulation in the industry is imperative, perhaps to drive in more adoption.

So, you know, it’s just creating good solutions is not going to bring in the adoption, which is ultimately what we want. Correct. I agree with you a hundred percent.

I think that’s the way forward. Yeah, I think that is absolutely there. So this is wonderful.

Now, you know, to moving to perhaps some lighter topics, let’s talk a little about, you know, who are folks in this space or what are the kinds of resources that you turn to when you want to, you know, glean off some new material in the Web3 space? Are there any books that you would recommend? Any, I don’t know, KOLs or any thought leaders who you think, you know, are pushing out the right information? So look, I mean, I would highly recommend books and not, look social media. So, okay, there are two pieces to this. One is you should mature enough to understand that one is information assimilation, where you can get hundreds, you can read hundreds of articles, but that doesn’t mean you know exactly what’s written in the article.

Please be like, if somebody listens to that, I want you to carefully understand that I read hundred things on the internet. That doesn’t mean I’m going to do what is written there. Right.

And I am going to. So first thing is you need to form your own opinion. So like you should read a lot of material.

Yes, you should read a lot of, I am a big firm believer of reading a lot of books, although I don’t get time. So read definitely if you are planning to enter, you know, Web3 on token economies. So there’s one that I read, you know, by Sharmin Vashmigar.

I think that’s a read, but again, you read any book on token economies. It’s a new concept, but definitely read. So I would just give you a glimpse.

So read book on a token economy for sure. Read on how, you know, blockchain can enable financial inclusion. So read any book on that.

You know, I mean, it doesn’t matter which author, right? Read any book on that. But just make sure that when you read the book, you should not be of the opinion. Oh, I read it here.

So I’m not going to do exactly that. How it works. You read many books, you read opinions of many KOLs.

So I follow a lot of KOLs on Twitter. That doesn’t mean I’m going to exactly do what they’re saying because it’s their opinion. So you need to form your own opinion.

Then definitely if you are entering a space, read more about how to build blockchain projects. So there is one book by Narayan Prousti that I read. But of course, I’m not recommending to read the same book, but I’m just giving you genres.

So one token economy book, one on how to build a blockchain project. So I read by Narayan Prousti. Then, you know, I’ve also read by Imran Bashir a book called Mastering Blockchain.

But again, I know I’m always recommending the book, but you choose your own thing. But yeah, but and then I, there’s a new book that I just got, which was the, you know, something called the Ultimate Web 3 Pocket Guide by Jesse Mongion that was just released a few months back. So I am, in fact, a lot of people actually end up gifting me books.

So that’s why these books because I’m in the space. So when I travel a lot, people gift me their books. But I read mostly to just get well equipped.

But I think one part, Tarusha, is reading books. One second part is, you know, being active on social media platforms to read whatever’s, you know, through KOLs, whatever their opinions are. And the third most important thing is attending events.

I think that’s something which is very important. So there are a lot of events which happen across the world. Even if you have a dearth of funds or money, you know, become a part of Web 3 communities in your city.

So you can be in any city across the world. There are Web 3 communities. So become a part of that community because then you get to hear diverse opinions of people from diverse geographies.

The good thing about Web 3 is there are lawyers, there are developers, and everybody is trying to have their own opinion. So it’s a very diverse mix in the community. So I’m a part of a lot of communities.

I think that’s also very important. I think attending events is important. Books is important.

And then KOLs are important. So I think do all of that. But then in the end, form your own opinion.

That’s the most important thing. Yeah, yeah, I think that’s something that I would recommend. I think that’s fabulous advice, you know, because people don’t recommend books in this space.

And it really makes me mad because I think books have taught me everything that I know. You know, quite like you, I was not a techie when I started in the tech space like 12 years back, almost. And I learned everything by either doing or just by, you know, gleaning information from books.

I did the same. Exactly. So that is why I think you and I have a very special space for books in our hearts.

And I think books are a wonderful way to, you know, just learn. I think also, you know, you’re talking about books. So then the one that I’m reading, you know, because you talked about books, I just went to my bookshelf.

So you know, there’s this book that you know, that’s just the one I bought, I got is about the metaverse and how it will revolutionize everything by Matthew Ball. So, you know, I and I’ll tell you how I got that book, because you know, I know, I was reading some post on LinkedIn, and it showed me it’s one of the most anticipated books of summer. So now I don’t even know Matthew myself, but I just got the book to just read.

So like, very important to understand that gleaning for information is nice, but don’t take it as the final word. Like if something’s written in even definitely, right? In web three definitions are also very subjective. So when somebody asks you what is a metaverse? I mean, I can tell you 10 different definitions, right? And 100 people will tell you 1000 definitions.

So it’s important for you to digest 1000 definitions and then form your own definition. But until you get 1000 definitions, how will you form your own? Right? So I think reading is very important. Attending events is very important.

Becoming a part of a community which is active, is very important. I think those three and then of course, social media to just read views of what other people are thinking in the space, you know, either KOLs or other protocols or other entrepreneurs, I think that’s also good. So I think those four.

I think, you know, what you said that it’s very important, especially in this day and age when there is so much misinformation. And, you know, just in general, this is just, in general, I think good advice for life and not just web three, that, you know, as if you’re reading something, or if you are taking in information or any kind of content assimilation you’re doing from any source, always try to, you know, look at it critically, always try to ask more questions. Because if you’re just going to take something at face value, you don’t really know who’s trying to do you.

So that is brilliant advice. And that is something that I go ahead and these, you know, new guys who are starting in this space and in general, as I said, for life also, this is just good advice in general. Because this has been such a lovely conversation, I really don’t want it to end because you know, this has been just like chatting, but you know, that there’s been some great insights.

But sadly, we’re kind of running out of time. So I would like to ask you the one question that I ask everybody that comes on the show, if you have like, if you meet somebody who’s, say, you know, in the web one, web two space, and who is basically peering in into the web three space from the outside, what would be your advice to have them start living on blockchain? To start, I mean, I would, okay, so I would say, there are two pieces which impact the world in a big way. One is data.

The second is money. The future of data and the future of money will reside on the blockchain. So now then the way that happens, I need support, I invite everybody to be a part of the revolution.

Somebody might come because the point is now it’s a new space. So once you enter the space, it you just open your mind to a whole set of possibilities. And you know, so web, if you see, you know, I would also say, you know, if you read a New York Times article of 1991, it said, there is a new fad in the market called the internet, you know, by 2005.

When you when I were to talk to my mom in 2010, you know, 10 and say, you know, I’m on Facebook, she said, Why are you wasting time, I would tell you that I made a lot of my connections on social media, and they are now my best friends. And there’s something that I work with now. So it’s really impacted me very positively.

And my mom would endorse it now. And she’s also on Instagram and Facebook. So now you know what Web2 did to you, right? Now, Web3 is in the infancy.

So you, the earlier you enter, the better are your chances of contributing to the new world order, which is definitely going to be shaped by decentralization by Web3 and by blockchain. So, so I would invite everybody to be a part of the revolution. That’s how I would, I would ask them.

I think that is that is absolutely brilliant, again, because I think I say that a lot as well. And, you know, we are on the same page on several matters. And this is the advice that I give a lot of people that, you know, if you want to be a part of something big, you know, just think the internet and how, you know, people were foo-fooing it when it had come out.

And, you know, you don’t even have to think about the internet so much, you can think about electricity, you can think about any innovation, any, any innovation that has happened in society has met with a lot of backlash, you know, in when it’s in its infancy. And then slowly, but surely, it has taken over, and it’s become a very integral part of our lives. And now, even people who perhaps, you know, don’t essentially understand the ins and outs of that technology are utilizing it.

And that is the beauty of any new innovation. Exactly, exactly. Awesome.

Thank you so much, Prateek, for taking out the time to speak to me. And, you know, this has been, again, a wonderful conversation. Are there any parting words that you know, you would like to say before we wrap this up? I think I would like to say, you know, one just parting, you know, line.

So one is, I often used to say that, you know, talent is equally distributed, but opportunities are not. So, you know, if you were to believe in this, please join the Web3 movement, because it actually symbolizes that you can be anybody, you could be a lawyer, you could be a developer, you could have any background, right, you could have studied arts in your college or school, there are equal opportunities in Web3. So it challenges the whole statement that, you know, if you have, I mean, there are, it basically is a movement which has democratized the access to opportunities.

So it’s the right place to be in. So enter the space and enjoy the space, because it’s new advancement happens every 30 minutes. So it’s very exciting.

So I think that’s the, and then another one that I would like to say as a closing remark would be, please make sure if you enter the space, then perseverance is just key. You can enter in a bull market or a bear market, but perseverance is key. You can’t come in and say, oh, nothing happened in three months, you know, I’ve been trying to build, nothing happened, because that doesn’t happen anywhere.

So you need to have perseverance. And if you have perseverance, then you’ll ultimately succeed in this space, because there are so many people who just come in for, you know, quick money, and they enter the, they exit the market very quickly. So you know, so the, and the people who’ve been in the space, they’ve done very well.

So the time is the most important thing, just enter with an open mind to learn as much as you can. And if you learn a lot, then you’ll be and if you stay in the space for a long time, you will be successful. Absolutely.

I think perseverance and just making sure that you know, you are getting in the space with the right mindset that there is, you know, in my school, so I’m an ex-Martinian. So my house’s motto was perseverance conquers all. So you know, you kind of touched enough there.

But yeah, absolutely. I think perseverance will conquer all if you’re building in wealthy, get in with the right mindset, and then there will be no stopping you. So once again, Prateek, thank you so much.

These are great parting words. And with that, I would like to close this particular show. Thank you so much, Tarusha, for having me.

It was a pleasure. Thank you.

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