Transcription Episode 51

Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Living on Blockchain. Today we are speaking to Ravi. Dr. Ravi is like the CEO of Zeeve and Zeeve is a no-code blockchain infrastructure platform.

Just the fact that it is no-code and it’s dealing with infrastructure, it’s quite a pioneering platform which is adding to lives of developers and helping developers who are transitioning from web2 to web3 as well. It was a very interesting conversation talking about ZK, NFTs, DeFi and whatnot. I really wait for you guys to hear this conversation and gain many, many insights.

I would also like to touch upon the fact that we have completed 50 episodes of Living on Blockchain and I’m incredibly proud of the team and all the support of our listeners. So thank you so much for your continued support and listening in and tuning in to these fun chats that we keep doing with web3 founders. If you guys have any recommendations for any more founders that you know you would like to get on this particular show, please do write to us.

Without further ado, let’s talk to Dr. Ravi and the conversation that I had with him. Let’s deep dive right in. Hi Ravi, thank you so much for taking out the time to speak to me.

How are you doing today? Yeah, I’m doing fine. How are you? I’m doing really well. Thank you so much for asking.

So for our listeners, Ravi, would you like to tell us a little about yourself and how you got into web3? Yeah, my name is Ravi. I’m the co-founder CEO of Zee. I’ve been into IT space for 20 plus years now.

Started my journey with a dot-com in 98 and then I’ve been working with quite a few startups in the last 20 years. Got into blockchain in 2017 with a startup called Sapotal, building enterprise products and solutions in the blockchain space. And then based on the expertise and experience we gained there, we realized open space in the blockchain infrastructure management.

And that’s how the whole idea originated and we started Zee three years back. Awesome. So you’ve been around for some time now and you’ve probably seen the cyclical way the market works as well.

Tell us a little more about Zee and what you guys are building. Zee is a web-free infrastructure as a service platform. We provide infrastructure tools to developers across different protocols.

So we started with enterprise protocols like Hyperledger Suite, Fabric, Besu, and then R3 Coder. So we provide fully automated deployments, management, monitoring of blockchain networks. And then we extended to public protocols where we provide RPC endpoints, full nodes, archive nodes, taking infrastructure for almost 40 plus blockchains.

Sounds really swell. Does it work like AWS? Is it like a self-service platform or does the user need to come to your platform and require some help from your end before you can deploy something? No, so it’s low-code to no-code platform until and unless, you know, like in the enterprise setup, launching a consortium, et cetera, there may be a bit of handholding or some legacy integrations may be involved. But largely if you talk about public protocols or app chains infrastructure, it’s pretty much do-it-yourself, no-code platform.

Awesome. That makes it like really encouraging for people who are perhaps not that tech-savvy. And in case, you know, they’re trying to deploy some sort of code on a node and see how smart contracts run.

Yeah, you’re absolutely right. I think that’s the reason one use case, which we never thought of is the colleges, universities, and regulatory sandboxes where quite a few universities or students, they use our platform as a sandbox, you know, they can come in, they can deploy contracts. There are free APIs for developers to start their journey with us.

So they can try out the platform and, you know, pretty much till the time they get into production, they can use our platform completely for free. Wow, that’s brilliant. That’s like very encouraging, I think, for the new developers.

So, you know, you’re the CEO and what motivated you perhaps to establish a no-code blockchain infrastructure company? Because I do think that, you know, a lot of people are thinking about no-code in a big way now. But, you know, when it comes to infrastructure, I still feel that no-code has a long way to go. But for blockchain, it’s pretty, you know, revolutionary, I would say.

What motivated you to take this step? Yeah, so as I mentioned, you know, while working with Sophocle, we were working with quite a few enterprise customers. And there, one of the challenges we used to face was that most of the customers at that time, 17 to 19, they were doing POCs, pilots, etc. So it used to take a lot of time to set up a proper infrastructure.

If you take Fabric, it used to take three to four weeks minimum to set up a proper infrastructure, which is error-free and scalable and performing well. And especially whenever the enterprise wanted to get into production or a larger pilot with more participants, creating and managing such an infrastructure was a huge overhead. And we have seen quite a few implementation failures just because either overheads on the infrastructure cost or not able to manage it.

Like one enterprise customer we got about one and a half years back, you know, they were struggling. It’s a large enterprise with a huge team, but they were still struggling with deploying an enterprise-grade, production-grade infrastructure. So we saw an opportunity.

And at that time, there was one tool called Chello, a hyper-linger suite of products, but that was not getting updated. I think the community had lost an interest. So we saw a very good opportunity that this is something which is very much required.

So initially we built it for our own purpose while working with Sophocle. And then we realized that this is something that industry wants. We started getting a lot of traction.

So then we carved out Zeeve as a separate brand and switched to, you know, converted Sophocle into Zeeve. So that’s how Zeeve started. And same goes for public protocols also.

We saw that especially with DeFi boom happening during the, you know, after the COVID. So we saw that the space is heating up. There are a lot of new protocols which are coming in, especially layer tools and new layer ones.

So every protocol do require a vibrant developer community. And to build them, they require necessary development tools and infra tools. So that is what we thought is something which industry requires.

Right. Okay. This has been quite a, like, it’s going quite organically, I would say.

So this has been quite a journey for you guys. How large is the team right now? We have a team of almost 100 plus people now, 70 plus blockchain and DevOps engineers. And yeah, so we have been scaling on the innovation side, covering different protocols, building more infrastructure tools, especially on the privacy interoperability side.

Right. So what is the next big milestone for you guys? Like what would you consider a big achievement with, you know, you guys at AI? So, one, I think is the whole AppChain infrastructure. AppChain is comparatively a new concept.

We have already partnered with major AppChain providers. We are working very closely with Polygon, Avalanche, you know, Substrate ecosystem to bring in the level of automation that is required to deploy one’s own blockchain. Because when we talk about launching your own custom blockchain, then it’s not just in a few APIs and nodes.

We do require the entire set of components, whether it be Explorer, wallet infrastructure, cross-chain bridges, faucets, and so on and so forth. So it becomes a very huge project for anyone to launch such an infrastructure. And that is where we want to make it so simple, because we believe that AppChain is going to be used by quite a few enterprises, as well as the three startups.

Okay, awesome. Yeah, please go ahead. And then there are a few things, as I mentioned on the privacy interoperability side, basically using zero-knowledge proof.

So that’s something that we are working in the fold right now. But there’s something cool and exciting will come in later this year. Awesome.

You kind of, you know, took on my next question. I was about to ask you about zero-knowledge proofs and what you guys are doing there. So for our listeners, would you explain what perhaps zero-knowledge proofs are and how you guys are working to, you know, integrating that in your infrastructure? Yeah, so one, so zero-knowledge proofs, especially when we want to enable privacy, zero-knowledge proofs are now being tried out for various reasons and various use cases in the blockchain space.

One, you know, we are seeing increasingly more blockchains coming in with our, like, you know, whether it be ZK roll-ups where they are using zero-knowledge proof to submit the proof to the main chain, but then there are, you know, ZK EVMs are bringing in the EVM compatibility to a zero-knowledge proof. And then there are a variety of use cases where zero-knowledge proofs are being used for privacy of data, maybe, you know, customer data, privacy convictions who are doing, reducing the impact of, you know, front running and so on and so forth. So one is a very simple, straightforward journey, like, you know, we added the support for Polygon ZK EVM as soon as it was launched.

One of the few players who provide support for ZK EVM. And then, you know, you’re working with other partners who are launching ZK-based chains. But then there are a few other components with a lot of applications that are exploring today.

It may be in the decentralized Oracle space, a lot of enterprises who are getting into real-world asset tokenization do require feeds or data that they can trust. And today, if you see the decentralized oracles, they are targeting majorly the DeFi market, but then there is a lot of real world market also who would require trusted data feeds, et cetera. So there are quite a few areas that are interesting.

Again, we are very much focused on infrastructure. So whatever we are building are more on the component side that can be utilized by various chains or various dApps. Right.

Okay. Well, that makes sense. You have like a sole focus with infrastructure.

So, you know, everything kind of ties up there. That’s brilliant. So now moving a little from, away from Zeeve and, you know, talking a little about market trends, what are your thoughts on the DeFi space and what do you think or what would be your prediction for perhaps gaining mass adoption in DeFi? So I think that DeFi, one, my feeling is that it’s definitely here to stay.

No doubt about that. The TVL, the challenges and related to whether it be facts or challenges related to regulatory compliances, they are going to be there. And I think everyone is trying to navigate and see both on the builder side, as well as on the government side, how to bring in necessary compliances to bring in some discipline into the old DeFi world.

But yeah, we are very optimistic that DeFi will continue to grow. Another area which has come up in the last couple of years is whole tokenization world, real world asset tokenization. So I think there is one drive, which is happening towards building all necessary compliances, technology, infrastructure for real world asset tokenization.

And once these, we have a lot of tokenized assets, then I think it will help DeFi go to the next level. Right now DeFi is pretty much limited to utility tokens, but just imagine where, you know, DeFi has expanded to tokenized assets. Then we are talking about trillion dollar industry.

So it will help expand the scope of DeFi across all industries, all kinds of assets. Yeah, I think so too. So, you know, my co-founder and I did work on something called OpenDeFi, which was supposed to be tokenizing real life assets.

But, you know, we successfully managed to do it for gold and silver. But, you know, the more assets or the more jurisdictions that you try to move on, but there are things like, you know, you need an insurer, you need a custodian, you need a source. And the policy is so dynamic around, you know, crypto throughout the world.

And that, you know, it can be a tough nut to crack. But I do agree that, you know, if somebody is able to crack it and get some good AUM under their belt, then obviously, that it’ll add to the market option. No, absolutely.

I agree, because the main thing is value proposition. Does blockchain-based tokenization bring in some real value that cannot be utilized by the existing technologies? The answer is yes. And if that is there, then, you know, the rest of the things will fall in place.

It may take time. So if you talk about complex asset classes like real estate, of course, to have a proper firm that regulations will take more time. For commodities, like, you know, gold, silver, it will be much simpler, easier.

Yeah, there are a lot of tokenization happening in the whole ESG space, carbon credits, carbon offsets, all kind of renewables and utility. Yeah, so and some regulations have also come up in some jurisdictions. So people have started moving and, you know, launching their initiatives in those jurisdictions.

And I think slowly and slowly, these jurisdictions will expand more and more countries will start having proper regulations. Yeah, absolutely. What is your take on the, you know, the policy and regulation scenario here in India, because we are talking about regulation and how that has become a bit, it is a small obstacle in the path to mass adoption.

How do you see India playing a role? And what is your take on the kind of taxation that, you know, India has levied in terms of crypto transactions? Yeah, so taxation, I think, is a short term kind of decision that has been taken. But I think what we require is a larger regulatory framework, so that there is a clear predictability among the startups. And most of the startups who are actually like tokenizing, if you talk about securities and tokenized assets, I think they are low hanging fruits for the government to come up with.

Because there, we are using technology to bring in discipline, we are bringing a lot of efficiency, you know, a lot of security exchanges, stock exchanges, etc. are now using blockchain to bring the back end settlement from three days or four days to near instant. So I think there’s a huge efficiency which blockchain is going to bring around.

So I think, first, we can see regulations where whether it be exchanges or tokenization, etc, can be regulated, having a clear set of framework that will help achieving exponential growth in the startup ecosystem. We have, I think, the highest number of developers in the world. It’s now, you know, we want the startups to grow.

There’s a lot of huge amount of talent that we see here. A lot of exciting startups have come out of India, have grown and build world-class ventures in the Web3 space. And to take maximum advantage of this, what we require is a properly defined regulatory framework.

Right. Absolutely. So, you know, because you have so many developers under your belt and your firm is dealing with the very grassroots of Web3 development and, you know, infra, what is your go-to market strategy, you know, regarding acquiring these developers or regarding acquiring these users? Because you are targeting a pretty much a global market.

Yeah, so we try to utilize all marketing channels. We are very strongly present on the digital channels, whether it be generating a lot of useful content, not talking about the product only, you know, talking about the various concepts in the Web3 space. I think we generate huge amount of content which are being read by a lot of people who are outside the Web3 space and want to get into it.

And so we generate content on our platform, on different other platforms, including GBA, Nestrom, etc. Then, you know, we are very strongly focused on partnership ecosystem, whether it be partners who are working with various customers or protocol partners who are building these innovative products. And then, you know, partners who are building some other exciting tabs or dev tools or infrastructure tools that we can combine with.

So we have partnered with almost 150 plus partners today. We have across different areas which help us to, you know, continue to build our platform to the next level. We want the developers to feel very comfortable while building a dev using Zeeve and get access to all the necessary tools that they require.

We, of course, cannot build each and everything of them. So, of course, we rely on partners. So I think partnership ecosystem is our major go-to strategy.

And then there are various few strategies that we have now designed and we are getting a lot of traction based on them. One area that we continuously do that is helping Web2 developers to become Web3 developers. So we have a lot of Web3 initiatives like meetups, hackathons, once a week meetup.

I was about to actually touch upon that. I was about to ask you about IRL events that, you know, how many events are you doing offline and are you hosting hackathons? Yeah, so we have created, we have a full-fledged team for that. And we have carved out a small brand for that called Web3 Titans.

We do a weekly meetup in different cities. We have already covered 45 plus cities in India. And so there, you know, the meetups have seen a very good traction, you know, almost 100 to 150 people attended in-person every meetup.

And there’s a traction of almost 400 to 500 registrations with every meetup. And then, you know, we do a hackathons. We participate in other hackathons like, you know, we have done almost 20 to 25 hackathons with different colleges, universities, community halls.

So yeah, but these all in-person activities have started picking up in the last six months only. And yet we continue to put in more efforts in this area. We’re bringing new developers in 54 into the ecosystem.

Awesome, awesome. This sounds really good. So are you guys, you know, looking to raise capital for Zeeve or are you guys not really looking at that area at all and you’re comfortable? So we did a seed raise last year from Neo Capital and Blue Ventures.

So not immediately right now, but yeah, maybe sometime next year. Awesome, awesome. So right now, you know, the market seems to be a bit, it’s having a bit of a bear run.

So what do you think, you know, would be the factors that you pull this market out from this bear run into a bull run? Which niches do you think would really shine in the upcoming bull run? Yeah, so that’s difficult to say. I think right now this last year was pretty much on gaming and meta work. But I see DeFi and tokenized assets being the evergreen pieces because we have just scratched the surface right now.

There’s a huge potential across different asset classes. So that’s one area we are bullish about. And as the regulatory framework improves and there are clear compliances and regulations that are there, then I think we’ll see an explosion, I think, in the DeFi and tokenized assets space.

All right. So I think, you know, you kind of have it right. I feel that, you know, I’m not entirely sure about the niche, perhaps, but I am sure that the bull run is going to come because, you know, there are builders right now who are still building and people who are able to crack good use cases and give their users, end users, a good experience, solve their problem.

Those would be the ones that will propel us into the next bull run. 100%. I 100% agree with this, because and that is, I’ve been writing in our newsletters that we continue to see a lot of enthusiasm, a lot of new developers, a lot of new startups who are building and the access to capital has reduced.

And that happens during the bearish market. But still, there is capital for interesting progress. And we continue to see newer projects getting funded or getting traction in terms of building user base or, you know, partnerships.

There are also a lot of exciting startups are coming up and they are thriving. And once, you know, we have so many startups thriving, building exciting ventures, of course, you know, the bull run will come eventually. Absolutely.

So, you know, in case there are certain listeners that we have who are perhaps looking to, you know, get some recommendations from you or books or thought leaders who you feel they should perhaps follow to get more insights in, you know, into the intraspace or as developers, what would be your recommendations? So one, I think there are a lot of exciting innovations happening in this space. So one need to stay abreast with all the sort of information. So that, of course, is very important.

One thing which may be useful is we have found events and conferences, at least some good events and conferences to be very useful where you can connect with the like-minded people in one place. So that’s the second area. Could you recommend some events? Like you feel there are certain conferences that are more valuable.

Right. Yeah. So Paris Blockchain Week was a very interesting event.

Then, you know, ConsenSys. I was at ConsenSys this time. It was a very good event.

And then there are a few other events like, you know, I think Barcelona, even European Blockchain Summit is coming in. And then, you know, Polkadot is happening in June, towards the end of June. And then we also attended Avalanche Summit, which happened in Maine.

It was again, just focused on Avalanche, but it was very exciting. Yeah. So I think protocol-driven events or events which have been there, you know, have been hosting for two, three years.

Some of these events and conferences are pretty cool. And then apart from this, I think the best ways to get your hands dirty, you know, even if somebody’s starting their journey, try out something, do some POCs, you’ll get an idea as to what value you can realize using blockchain and be more realistic with what our technology, end of the day, it’s technology. It has got certain attributes.

It has got certain benefits and what can be done and what cannot be done. So it becomes much easier when we do a POC or try it out. Right.

But basically creating an MVP, I think is step one. Like, you know, if you’re really trying to get in this space, then any sort of a minimum viable product, if you’re creating, that would be a good way to understand whether, you know, if it is, it can be feasible to scale something like that or not. So always, I think my advice is always very similar.

I think that, you know, get your hands dirty, try to be open for learning and growth, because those are the only ways that, you know, you can really expand your horizons because I do believe that formal education doesn’t really train people for Web3. Would you agree? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I think we talk about the whole entrepreneurship. I think there are hardly any courses that you can, that can prepare you for this.

But I think once somebody gets into it, gets the sense of it, what is needed and there’s a clear enthusiasm and conviction, I think things happen. Absolutely. I think as long as you know, one has an open mind and is open to learning, then the world’s your oyster, especially nowadays when, like, if the internet was like the first greatest equalizer, then I think blockchain is the second greatest equalizer.

And you owe it to yourself to learn more about this technology and try to get in this space in whatever capacity you can. Not everybody has to be a developer. Yeah, that’s true.

That’s true. And there are a lot of opportunities and it is going to impact, see, blockchain is a technology which is going to impact the infrastructure. Sometimes, you know, most of the people won’t even realize that they have started using a blockchain based app rather than a Web2 app.

And that is going to happen. Like, you know, people will start using Metaverse. They will start doing immersive interactions and so on without even realizing they are using a Web3 app.

And that is, I think, should be the intent for most of the builders. Bring that kind of user experience that people are very comfortable with, which is very intuitive, so that adoption becomes very easy and seamless and wider. Right.

I think, you know, I can go with almost everything that you have to say here. Tell me a little about, you know, your perspective when it comes to NFTs and what do you think about all the rage, like NFTs were all the rage about and they became about digital art and creation and now people are moving beyond just digital art and, you know, they are looking at NFTs as a place where the next big innovation can take place. What is your take on this? Yeah, so I will always been a vocal proponent of NFTs.

One, you know, from a technology standpoint, now it’s the first time we have a technology which gives you an option to own an asset, 100% ownership. Till that time, you know, no other technology has been able to do that. So that, I think, is something very exciting and not just owning an asset, but all the transactions for an asset are completely driven by immutable audit trail and there’s a clear you know, transaction history.

And then, you know, with smart contracts, other pieces like loyalty, etc., it is going to play a huge role. So one, I think boom and burst continue to happen because whenever the supply becomes more than the demand, of course, the market is going to crash and that is what happened with NFTs. And then, you know, what is the fair value of a tokenized asset? That again is a question.

So once, you know, and there are quite a few startups who are now building these discovery platforms where you can realize or you can ascertain the fair market value of an asset. So I think these tools and then second, extending NFTs beyond digital art and collectibles to real world assets, I think will open up a new chapter altogether. It has started happening.

So NFTs, I think is going to be the most exciting concept from Web3 that I believe. So do you, you know, have any recommendations in terms of courses or books that perhaps developers can look at if you know, because you mentioned how Azeem is helping Web2 developers transition into Web3. So if somebody is just trying to explore whether this entire area is for them, would you have any recommendations for them? So one, I always recommend to start with the Bitcoin and Ethereum white paper.

Get a clear perspective as to how the technology came into being. And then in a post that today, of course, there are a lot of books, I think, very difficult to say. I’ve read quite a few books, but then books, you know, very quickly get outdated.

Technology is moving so fast. I believe some of the online blogs or some courses, some new courses that keep on getting updated on Udemy or different platforms, they can be very useful. And then, you know, of course, getting updates with some of the publications like CoinDesk, Bitcoin Telegraph, etc.

Give a sense of what is happening in the market, what new is coming in to check out. Yeah, it’s a bit of a nightmare to navigate properly. Yeah, it’s too much information.

It is very easy to get overwhelmed. Now, I think when I had, you know, chanced upon the Bitcoin white paper, and then I got into mining initially, this is early 2012. You know, it was still there was very sparse information.

And there were ways and means that, you know, you could find your way. But now there are so many people talking about Web3, and not all of it is correct, by the way. And that is, I think, like a big problem.

Because, you know, where you’re taking your information from becomes as important as what information you’re gaining. Right. So I think the core concept should be very clear.

So having these white papers, at least the core concepts of the technology pieces are clear. The rest is an open world, you know, what you can build using these. Then, you know, one can read DeFi white paper, I would always recommend to understand how, you know, tokenization has been used for lending or for investments or for managing assets, right.

So some of these white papers are very, very nicely done. There’s a lot of details and the utility of it. So the basic white papers, the core white papers, and some of these DeFi apps and NFTs, etc, will give a clear understanding where to start.

And then, of course, once the basic concepts are clear, I think it’s easy to build on them. Right, I think I completely agree. You know, we’ve talked a lot about financial institutions in the financial sector and how it sets to benefit, or how Web3 sets to benefit from, you know, creating use cases around the financial world.

What other sectors of business or what other niches do you think are, you know, set to see a boom because of this technology? So we are seeing a lot of traction in telecom space, media, entertainment, then energy and utilities, manufacturing as a whole, touching different industries. So these are some on the enterprise side. And then, you know, even in the public protocol space, I think DeFi is the biggest piece and then, you know, tokenized assets, which again will touch upon pretty much all industries.

The lowest hanging fruit, of course, would be financial services, because we already have digitized assets. So whenever we have digitized assets, you know, converting them into a tokenized assets, it’s much simpler than moving on to assets, which are physical in nature. They are much more difficult, but require more compliance systems of reserves, etc.

These are some of the industries, I believe, yeah, are set to basically get revolutionized because of Web3. I totally, I think, concur. I feel a lot of, you know, a lot of sectors, I think, can benefit from using this technology.

But then again, like it’s the same logic as how every industry now kind of sits on tech, right? So I feel that, you know, in the future, it will be like every industry has like a Web3 component built and, you know, we wouldn’t even know and we wouldn’t be privy to it, but it’ll just make the entire sector boom a little bit and maybe make it a little easier for the users. Right. Decentralized identity, I think, is definitely going to touch upon quite a few industries, including the public sector space.

That I think is going to change. Yeah, absolutely. Especially because, you know, with all of these use cases and when all of these, you know, cases happen where the Aadhaars are kind of the data is available on the web for anybody to purchase for the highest bidder, I feel a decentralized identity has bigger implications than just, you know, perhaps as a unique identity for Web3 applications.

Yeah, no. So apart from privacy and security, it’s about efficiency also. Right.

Managing such large data sets, securing them, especially the secure transfer or utilizing the identity. One is just, you know, creating identity and storing it. But the bigger challenge is how to utilize that identity without risk, without, you know, privacy concerns or security concerns.

That I think is something which decentralized identity is going to change. Where you can connect with someone without diverging any unnecessary information to unnecessary actors. There are revoked access pieces.

And then, you know, once the metaverse grows up, identity will become a centralized piece. Similarly for IoT. So IoT-based, whether it be like, you know, there’s a consortium by Vodafone, very exciting, you know, providing decentralized identity to IoT devices.

So I think identity is going to be a cornerstone. One of the most basic use case that will be utilized by various other use cases. Absolutely.

I think the entire identity space is like a goldmine of use cases. So if there are any entrepreneurs listening, and I would think that, you know, you should perhaps use your, and you’re still looking for an idea, then perhaps look for something to solve in the identity space, because that itself is really huge and it can have really big repercussions. Oh, that’s true.

What are your, you know, what do you think about the general perception about Web3? You know, how do we change that as builders in the space? How do you think we can do our bit to change the perception or the negative connotations associated with Web3? So I think evangelizing and education, that’s what we do our small bit in this space. I do a lot of, myself personally, you know, do a lot of webinars, just, you know, repeating basic concepts to understand the technology, the various features, benefits, et cetera. So I think evangelizing and continue to have education will make people understand about the technology per se.

It’s a bit complex, no doubt. And then, you know, there are always misuse, which happens whenever a new technology comes in. So how to navigate between these two, like, you know, the good part of it and the abuse potential of it.

I think it will become easier for people to understand the benefits and see how they can be part of it. Yeah, I think I agree. I think education becomes like a very important factor here.

And if the onus falls on the builders and on the people who are working in this space to make sure that, you know, the right kind of information is reaching the masses so that the perception changes as well as more people are feeling correctly about getting in this space and they feel encouraged to get in this space. Yep. It is still not a cut and dry market that, you know, we simply talk about your products.

Yeah, absolutely. And that’s why we believe that when we generate content, 20% talk about product, 80% talk about the technology and the promise of it, that more and more people, you know, start using it, start understanding it. Yeah, I think that is pretty much bang on.

What are your most used web3 applications? On the platform? No, yeah, the ones that you use or on the platform? As a user. Yeah, as a user. Oh, so as a user, I think NFT, DeFi, definitely.

And then, you know, pretty much, I believe DeX is one of the most used applications. I see how you’re being very safe and not naming specific platforms. Yes, because we are use case platform protocol agnostic.

No, no, no favorite. I think now there are, in any case, there are lots and lots of protocols, right? Earlier it was very easy. You know, there was Ethereum ecosystem, Ethereum polygon, we used to talk about Uniswap or PancakeSwap, but now we are talking about Arbitrum or Phantom, full Avalanche ecosystem, Parity, Substrate ecosystem, Polkadot, Cosmos.

So we have protocol partners across different ecosystems. And each ecosystem comes up with their own deck, own wallet infrastructure, own cross-chain bridges or interoperability options. So there’s no favorite, I would say.

But yeah, I believe that Ethereum and Polkadot and Cosmos are the largest ecosystem today. And so most of the interactions happen apps which are supporting these ecosystems. Okay.

And on your, from the perspective of like somebody who is like looking at all this infrastructure and getting all of these insights, which ecosystems or which, what kind of applications are mostly being utilized by the users, the end-users? So I think one is gaming, which is quite a few users. Then biggest is, I think, believe is wallet. Whenever somebody starts their Web3 journey, of course, they download or utilize a browser extension or any kind of wallet.

And then of course, they go to either centralized exchange or decentralized exchange to get access to some tokens. So that’s how the journey starts. Who’s that? I think NFT have brought in a lot of new users to the ecosystem.

That was their first, you know, first time they interacted with this. And then again, you know, once somebody is already in this space, has got access to tokens, then being a liquidity provider across different taxes or lending platforms is again, very common. A lot of people do it.

And then the rest, I think are pretty much the users who are using something or the other. One customer recently we have launched on our platform has launched a voting app, something like wisdom of crowd where people can participate. And from a user perspective, it’s pretty much cool.

They do not need to understand the smart contracts or pay for the gas fee, et cetera. So it has been designed by this. Correct.

And now with, you know, innovations in this space, user experience is definitely improving. So that again is helping all these concepts to come in there. Decentralization, trustless network is very important, but at the same time, user experience is equally important.

So these use cases are now started coming up and we’ll see a lot when you, and this, I think will help bring a lot many users because a voting app kind of app can bring in millions of users in a very short span of time. Yeah, that’s true. That’s true.

It’s a very easy way to, it’s probably one of the quickest way, not, I wouldn’t say easy, but a quick way to get like a lot of users in one place. Right. So in case, you know, any of our listeners are interested in perhaps joining your team, or, you know, taking benefits of your developer centric developer focused programs, how do you, how, how would you suggest they get in touch with you guys? Yeah, so we are fairly open on all social channels, like very active on LinkedIn, Twitter, Discord, and Telegram.

You know, we do all different kinds of meetups, hackathons, webinars, so anyone can join in. That is to know about what we are doing or connect with us. Then our platform is pretty much do it yourself.

Anyone can sign in and they can sign up for a free subscription plan. They get 10 million API hits a month for a free, and they can start using different APIs of different protocols to start the journey. And then, you know, we have a full fledged support team.

They can always initiate a chat and talk to our support team and they will help them, you know, navigate where to start and so on and so forth. In addition to solid documentation. Awesome.

I think that kind of solves it now that, you know, we’re kind of running out of time. I would like to touch upon this one question, though you have kind of answered it in some ways over the course of our conversation, but this is something I ask everybody who comes on Living on Blockchain. What would be your two suggestions for perhaps two or three suggestions for somebody who’s peering in from the outside to, you know, actively perhaps take a leap and get into Web3 and start living on blockchain? So one, I think, is to understand the tech and what it can do.

Get a thorough understanding before getting into it, because otherwise people may have some bitter experiences. And that happens, I think, when you’re starting anything. Right.

And then, you know, start small, build something, launch it in the market, get feedback, and then continue to build on it. That again, helps a lot. And third, I would say that, you know, it’s always end of the day, it’s always getting traction is more important than the tech itself.

So you build a solid product, definitely people will come. But let the, you know, get user traction, build on top of that traction and continue to add more innovation to the product. So it’s like a good virtuous cycle that needs to be built, and you get more and more traction.

Absolutely. Those are some absolutely golden nuggets for a lot of entrepreneurs and people who are looking to get into the Web3 space. Once again, Ravi, thank you so much for taking out an incredible amount of time from your busy schedule to talk to us and our listeners.

Do you have any parting words before we wrap this up? No, thanks a lot, Tarusha. I think it was very exciting talking with you. Thank you for the opportunity to be on Living on Blockchain.

It’s a very exciting podcast. I happened to go through it before coming on this podcast with you. Yeah, so I would say keep smiling, keep building.

Awesome. That is really great. Thank you so much.

Once again, Ravi, it was really lovely chatting with you. Thank you.

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