Transcription Episode 67

Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of Living on Blockchain. Today we are speaking to Roy. Roy is the founder of Peller as well as Lightlink, which is the infrastructure with the new internet.

That is what they are calling themselves. It’s basically an L2 and they have a specific USB when it comes to enterprises. They have a special enterprise mode.

It’s a layer 2 blockchain solution secured by Ethereum, purposely built for metaverse, NFT and gaming applications. It was a very interesting conversation. I can’t wait for you guys to hear it.

Let’s deep dive right in. Hi Roy. Thank you so much for making the time to speak to me today.

How are you doing? I’m doing great. Nice to meet you as well. Thank you for asking me to participate on your podcast.

It’s my absolute pleasure. So for our listeners, can you tell us a little about you know how you got into Web3 and what you’re building currently? Yeah, sure. I developed a fascination into Bitcoins back in 2012, so fairly early on in the journey.

The technology has always been very fascinating from my perspective because I’ve loved computers for as long as I remember. I have a computer science degree and I’ve been dealing with technology for my entire professional career. I’ve been a technology entrepreneur for the past 22 years.

And yeah, the Bitcoin technology being one of the first applications of blockchain as an industry, it’s hard to ignore, right? I always thought it was one of those technology wave. It’s almost like one of those industry paradigm shifts, right? Just like internet, just like personal computing, just like mobile applications. It’s something that’s so fundamentally different.

And lo and behold, 10 years later, here we are in a world that has, I think, largely, substantially changed by this technology. Absolutely. I think, you know, this particular decentralized technology, blockchain technology has the potential to change everything and have an impact on basically a lot of sectors, I feel as well.

And now we are like nearly 10, 12 years in and it’s still in its infancy. And it’s wonderful to see how it’s kind of evolving. And more and more people are taking a look and trying to become a part of this revolution.

It is a new era in technology, like you said. Yeah, exactly right. I totally agree.

When I saw this technology, I read the white paper. And one of the first thing I think a lot of engineers would do would be try to experiment with the technology. So I actually took a bit of time to try to build a blockchain myself.

I wrote some technical, read some technical white papers and looked at the existing technology out there and said, you know, how hard can it be? Let’s try to build one ourselves, because the concept, if you try to explain it, it’s actually, it’s not as complex as, you know, parts of asymmetric cryptography, for example. But when you look at blockchain as a technology, it’s actually, it can be explained and it can be built. So over a span of a few hours, you can actually build a blockchain from scratch, rudimentary elements of it.

So that’s essentially where we started experimenting with the technology. I saw the implications of this technology because when you have a chain of blocks, a chain of data, the historical data is anchored as a truth in all future data. So it’s almost like a continuous line of mathematical proofs to say the past data has been evolved to the current data.

And that attribute, that immutable, immutability attribute has been very fascinating from my perspective, at least. So I always thought this technology could be the truth of the world, right? So like our marriage records, our birth records, our land titles, our wealth, our, you know, various information could be stored on the blockchain. And to a certain degree, the world is using it for this purpose.

But I think over time, we’ve discovered many other applications of the technology too. Yeah, absolutely. I think there are so many different use cases.

And the way, you know, this technology can be perhaps implemented in day-to-day life is yet to be fully explored. And that is what makes it wonderful. And like you said, this is a space where, you know, there are different elements that are perhaps already available because a lot of it is open source.

And, you know, you can create and build your own chain with these as well. So that kind of brings me to Lightlink and what you guys are doing there. Can you tell me a little about Lightlink and how it came into existence? You know, how has the vision evolved since its inception? Yeah, sure.

So when we exited our e-commerce company back in 2017, that was the first ICO wave. We built a blockchain solutions company called Ella. And we were building, you know, various enterprise applications in digital payments, in asset tokenization, supply chain, you know, all kinds of technology around blockchain.

And we saw the applications of enterprise blockchain. You know, it’s fairly fast, it’s predictable. But we also saw the issues with private enterprise blockchains.

And those are that interconnectedness to the rest of the world, that opaqueness and lack of trust. You really have to establish trust if you’re a private blockchain. And since 2021, we’ve been building a lot of non-fungible technology in building digital collectibles in the sporting world, with movie stars, with artists, larger media IP and things like that.

And a lot of that technology was on layer one, Ethereum, namely. And when you look at the Ethereum layer one technology, you have lots of innovation, a fantastic economy, a fantastic community, but you have a lot of latency, cost, throughput issues, right? Absolutely. Yeah.

When you see both sides of that equation, you have enterprise blockchains, private blockchains that have these characteristics, and layer one blockchain has other characteristics. And we had all of these clients that were demanding a solution that wasn’t good enough on both sides. So when the concept of layer twos came around, we thought, hey, actually there is a solution in the middle where you can bring the best of enterprise blockchains, the best of layer ones, and you can merge them into a solution that’s layer two technology.

And that’s where Lightning came around. We essentially built it on the need of our customers, our clients, our partners. And it’s a layer two EVM blockchain.

It uses Ether as a native token. You can write solidity, pay smart contracts, and you can deploy that onto our public network. Now, what makes Lightning different and unique is its enterprise mode.

So we essentially have two gas modes. One is the public mode, just like OptumSem, Optum, other layer twos. And the other is trying to solve a problem, which we have been hearing over and over again with our enterprise customers.

And they typically start with a proof of concept on Polygon or Binance or Ethereum, and it works great. It demonstrates all the characteristics of blockchain. But they typically ask me this question.

I have 100,000 users. How much is the infrastructure going to cost me for the next six months? Or I want to issue 1 million NFTs. Can you estimate how much that is going to cost? Those are fairly simple questions to answer if you’re dealing with a Web2 world, a SaaS world.

But it’s a very difficult question to answer in the public chain world. Because you have all of these variables. Supply and demand essentially sets the value of the native token.

And also supply and demand from an on-chain resource perspective sets the variable of gas price. And we have variables times variable times a constant. You have huge variations in the end result.

And that’s why sometimes when you send USDT, it costs $2, and sometimes it costs $5. So there’s that huge degree of uncertainty, which the enterprise customers don’t really want to hear. And this is where we try to come up with a solution where Lightlink has a different gas mode built for enterprise customers, where they can have a bit more predictability and certainty.

They can pay us in fiat and know exactly what they’re going to get from a transaction capability perspective, latency, throughput. All of those parameters are within the level of tolerance that they expect. So essentially two gas modes.

Wow. Okay. So this has to be your USP, right? Because I’ve never heard of this before, like that there are two gas modes.

And that is super interesting to know. Can you tell me a little bit more about how this sort of works on a technical end? Yeah, sure. Because we built the chain from ground up, we have a bit more customization capability.

And it’s a requirement that our customers wanted. And because we built a enterprise blockchain in the past, we’re able to reuse some of the previous thinking, architecture into this design. From a user perspective, when a smart contract on a public network is whitelisted on Lightlink, of course, the interaction with a smart contract from a user perspective is gasless.

So let’s use USDT as example, right? On a public network like Ethereum, when you send USDT, you need Ether as the gas token to send that USDT, right? So you might send one USDT, the recipient receives one, but you might burn $2 or $5 equivalent of Ether. So the native token is required for that transaction to occur. Now, in the case of an enterprise mode-enabled smart contract, that transaction for the user to send USDT is gasless.

So when you send USDT, the other party receives USDT, and there’s no need for gas. And I think that has a huge implication because it reduces the barrier to entry, it removes complexity, and it introduces a really positive user experience when interacting with that smart contract. From a technical perspective, yeah, we spent a lot of time and effort in terms of making this happen.

But we also borrowed a lot of thinking from the best minds in the world, right? Vitalik came up with the modular blockchain thesis for our blockchain ecosystem. And there are a lot of really smart people in the world, and we’re essentially building on top of that ingenuity. Wow, this is very, very interesting.

I find this very fascinating because obviously there are multiple blockchains, and nowadays, quite a few of them. And this has to be one of the defining factors in your journey. So you guys are using optimism, right? That is something that you are doing as well for your faster transactions and throughput? Yeah, so I would say our blockchain architecture implements an optimistic type of architecture.

We don’t use the optimism network per se, so we’re not a part of the super chain. So we publish proofs on layer one, we post our data on a separate data availability layer. And by doing that, we are substantially more efficient from a cost perspective, comparing to an optimistic roll up.

So instead of rolling up to layer one, we roll up to a data availability layer. And by doing that, we have a substantially less cost base because we don’t incur the same gas fees on the layer one. And therefore, we can pass on that reduction in cost to our customers.

So we can essentially process blocks at a much higher frequency. So at the moment, it’s 500 milliseconds at a higher capacity, reaching essentially a throughput of more than 5000 transactions per second. And also at a substantially lower cost base, because we’re only publishing proofs on layer one, and that’s a substantially lower transaction cost comparing to posting essentially all of your data onto layer one.

Wow, this is wonderful. The more I hear about it, the more I like it. And I would like to perhaps deploy a few apps as well on Lightning.

It sounds wonderful. So more part to you guys. What would you consider your niche? I know that this is a tricky question to ask for somebody who’s founded a blockchain, but where would you think that your chain’s supremacy aligns with which niche? Would it be metaverse, NFTs, or gaming? Yeah, great question.

It’s a hard question to answer because it’s infrastructure. Now, when we talk to our customers, we want them to see value utilizing the chain. Now, if we are providing the exact same solution technology to our customers, then there is probably no reason to do the same thing.

So we constantly think about how can we create more value. If you look at our current chain, we’re processing about 50 to 100,000 transactions every day, still fairly small compared to the capacity of the chain. And when you look at the transactions that’s posted on the chain, it’s predominantly gaming at the moment.

And it validates this idea I have, and I’m hoping to tell more game developers to consider in this mindset. So when you are building a Web3 game, you probably receive a grant from a large layer one. You would try to do a PFP collection or introduce something of value, and you post those transactions on layer one, right? So you might have USDT as a reward, you might have a token, I’d say USDT20, and you’ll give users a reward in this exercise.

So it largely talks about having value, highly valued assets on layer ones. And that makes complete sense, because layer ones have the largest economy, have the most vibrant ecosystem, have the most developers, have the most participation. So of course, your CryptoPunk or BoredApe or your Mockverse PFPs should be on Ethereum.

Your USDT should be on Ethereum. But when you look at the other side of that gaming developer and the data that they produce, there are other things that require higher transactional throughput and lower latency, and it might not have the same value. And those things are like experience points, what level I am, the achievements, the badges, the in-game assets.

A typical game or ecosystem produce a lot more data than your highly valued assets. So the current mindset is for these developers to store all of this information on layer one, and they found out it’s going to cost $100,000 per day. So they would go, hey, actually, let’s just put it in the database.

But then if you’re putting achievement information, badges information, game assets into a database, it’s not really a Web3 game. It’s not a Web3 project, because it’s only when you surface this information on chain, it becomes transparent. It becomes interoperable.

When another game reads what’s in your wallet, it can curate a wonderful customized experience for you. And so it makes sense for you to put that information on chain. So then you look at where do we put it? And of course, layer two is the obvious answer, because it has more capacity.

Then you think about, is it optimism? Is it arbitrary? Is it immutable? And each one of those has its own pros and cons. And what we’re trying to introduce in this equation is predictability. And that’s it.

If you want to support 100,000 users, you know exactly how much the exercise is going to cost. And for Web3 users to interact with the system, we want to remove the barrier to entry. So that’s where we are seeing the most success in application as of today.

We have a game called The Red Village, a super cool battle royale game. We have Tally Ark, we have Grapes, an excellent project within the animocore portfolio companies. And they’re writing substantial amounts of transactions onto Lightning today.

And these transactions show, I play this game at this time, I completed this game at this score, and I had this outcome. It’s an NFT. And that information becomes public.

And then next time, when you play a different game within the same ecosystem, or a different ecosystem, that data becomes permissionless. And it’s really interesting to see the portability of this idea, and how this idea can be utilized in many different industries. Wow, that sounds recommendable.

And it’s very interesting. And I was just checking out, you know, your social presence and your website. Can you tell us, like, see, I think in Web3, a lot comes down to community and what you’re building is a little akin to a zero to one product.

So there are two parts to this question, how big is the community involvement in a Lightning? And then how, and the second part is, how do you go about perhaps solving the chicken and egg problem? Because you know, you need applications to get more transactions or to have more users using it. And, but for those applications, you need developers. So how are you incentivizing both users and devs to join you on your journey? And how big is community in your vision? Yeah, sure.

There are many different layers to that question. So firstly, our community is still relatively small. We have about 66,000 Twitter followers.

Our Discord is about 40,000 users. We have about 38,000 users on Telegram. We’re doing an airdrop campaign.

And I think there’s probably about 75,000 participants in the Galaxy airdrop campaign. And that has been a quite interesting exercise and rewarding exercise for us. You know, our partner Galaxy really promoted the chain and we had a lot of active participants utilizing the chain as a result.

So that’s more of the public users of the ecosystem. And of course, we’ll be doing more airdrop campaigns, forming more partnerships and incentivizing users to come and interact with the different protocols on top of the chain with a airdrop campaign. And that’s Lightning Tokens.

Now, from a developer community perspective, one of the first applications that we integrated with is a no-code, low-code ecosystem. And I think as a result, there has been a lot of people experimenting with the chain. So if you look at the testnet, and I think as of today, I was looking at it today, there has been over 190,000 smart contracts deployed on our testnet.

And that’s quite fascinating to see developers or individuals are experimenting with deploying to the chain and to see what that experience is like. And we’re also trying to create more structured programs in organizing hackathons in various parts around the world, in Asia, in Europe, around the globe, to experiment with gasless enterprise mode, layer two capabilities. So we have three on the horizon, three hackathons on the horizon at the moment.

And of course, our foundation is putting forward a prize for developers. So that’s the two elements of community. But I think the current Web3 ecosystem is still fairly small.

When you talk about cryptonatives, you’re talking about tens of thousands of developers or hundreds of thousands of participants. So it’s still relatively small compared to the rest of the world. And that’s where the ecosystem we have built for the past six years really come in.

We’re partly owned from our solutions company, but one of the largest conglomerates in Asia. They’re one of the largest investors in Lightning. And we are trying to utilize our enterprise contacts, our friends, clients over the years to bring millions of users into the ecosystem.

And I hope I can see a merge of the two worlds. So one is we’re talking to protocols and providing them with a grant to participate in our ecosystem, like Wearable, for example, was recently integrated into our ecosystem and they’re fairly reputable NFT ecosystem capability. And we have DeFi, other types of infrastructure, public goods, deploying as Web3 capabilities on Lightning.

Now, what I’m hoping to see is as user base increase on the enterprise side, can we start unlocking more features using Web3 native dApps in the same user experience on the enterprise side? So for example, if you’re using a digital wallet to pay for a public transportation use, maybe we can open up better micro lending or better saving capabilities using our existing DeFi systems because it’s interoperable by nature from a Web3 perspective. So that’s what I’m hoping to see and how we’re trying to solve the chicken egg problem. Wow, wonderful.

That’s good to know, because I think that again, in the last few years, quite a few blockchains have come up and not everybody is able to crack this. And that is where lies the secret sauce as well as the magic, because I think once you’re able to crack this, then there is no stopping a good product. You know, you mentioned that you’re doing like a lot of campaigns with your native token.

So are there two tokens involved in your chain, like the enterprise is paying with Ethereum and you also have a native token? Yeah, so from a public Gatsby perspective, it’s in ETH, where you can bridge ETH over, you can use ETH to pay for gas and so on and so forth. So very similar to other Layer 2s. We made that deliberate choice because we wanted to reduce the barrier to entry.

So if we ask developers to buy KYC, go to exchange and buy Lightning tokens, it sort of becomes a very difficult exercise to do. So we try to make that as simple as possible. So from an enterprise side perspective, they would pay in fiat.

And then there’s a whole gas token mechanic, which converts fiat into Lightning tokens. Now, Lightning tokens has other utility too, in terms of participating in governance, and potentially in the future, as an incentive for network validation, for checking proofs. And yeah, so we’re designing various utility for the token.

I think it’s important to have that capability as a key economic lever in the ecosystem, so looking incentivized behavior. Awesome. So can you tell me a little about the next big milestone for your platform? Yeah, sure.

So we’re onboarding quite a few different projects. Okay. And those, we like to talk about it when they become a little bit more tangible.

So firstly, watch this space. We are working very closely with a large partner to introduce our technology across these portfolio companies. We’re working with one of the largest investors to introduce the network to its real world business units, whether it’s in retail or telecommunications.

We are working with a fairly large NFT project to introduce experience points within its ecosystem. And yeah, so there’s a lot of things going on, and it’s never a dull day. Wonderful.

It’s good to hear about all the progress that you guys are making, and all of these big partnerships coming through would obviously help your chain quite a bit. In terms of building on Lightlink, can anybody just start building? Do you have a developer community where they can get regular support? Yeah. So if you go to, the button on the homepage says build with us, and there’s a lot of documentation there.

If you join our Discord, there’s a developer channel, which I hang out from time to time and pop in my headings and say hello, but our developers certainly contribute to the conversation and help different people along the way. And anybody’s welcome. The network is largely open.

So there’s a faucet. It’s as simple as changing your RPC endpoint. We have code examples, how to integrate with the chain.

Feel free to reach out if there are projects, if you’re building a project that we should know about, or if we can help from any capacity. Wonderful. I think I’d link up these details in the episode description as well, so that people who are looking here can get in touch with you with these.

As a leader in this space, and you’ve been around for a while, what personal lessons have you learned from your journey with Lightlink? How do you navigate the dynamic and ever-evolving landscape of blockchain? Yeah, great question. I see the technology as the technology, and the technology is beautiful. So that immutability, the mathematics, the cryptography, the way that network is built in redundancies, they’re all beautiful.

On the other side, because it’s a technology where value is so entrenched into the ecosystem, there’s Ether, there’s USDT, there’s Lightlink tokens, so value is attributed to a lot of these transactions. You will have bad actors on the side that probably be rugging you, or creating scams, or trying to hack your crypto wallet. Those are the other side of having an open, permissionless, pseudonymous network, where value is so central to the ecosystem.

So yeah, I see both sides, and I think the technology is always the technology that cuts out of the bag, the genies out of the bottle. We can never go back to pre-internet, pre-LIMs, chat-GPT type of scenarios, right? So this concept is out there. So when we are designing a new type of financial product, or ways to recognize or modernize a registry, or optimize a supply chain, this technology, a blockchain technology is going to come up in this conversation.

So I think if we see the technology as a technology, it’s probably a little bit better than talking about the speculative attributes, because of the value nature of this technology. Absolutely, I completely agree. I think, as someone who’s been around for a while as well, I think I started off my journey in Web3 sometime around, probably sometime around you did, like 2011, 2012, with the early mining days.

I had a data center company, we had hardware, so we wanted to basically put it to better use. And he started mining Zcash and some bits, some other tokens. But, you know, it’s, this has been such a journey.

And people keep asking me the same thing. How is it that, you know, you’re still around after seeing so many cycles and so many speculation, and I have the same answer that, you know, I don’t really, the speculative part of it doesn’t interest me so much. It’s more about the technology.

I came, I fell in love with the technology. And that is I entered the space. And that is why I’m here all of these years later, because I truly feel that, like you said, it’s like Ginny and the bottle, you know, Ginny is out of the bottle, rather, and then it’s there’s no going back.

And there are good and bad actors, yes. But the technology itself is so groundbreaking, that it is going to have a massive impact. I’d rather be on the side of, you know, just seeing how it kind of pans out and has an impact on the world.

Yeah, I totally feel you. And I completely agree. So now, you know, moving on to some perhaps funnier bits, and adding some clash of fun into the episode, I would love to ask you, this is a completely hypothetical question, if you could say create a blockchain fantasy league, okay, like a team for your link, you know, light link success.

And these characters can be from anywhere from video games or movies, who would be your top three picks? And how do you think they would contribute to the success of the platform? How’s three pigs? Wow. Elon Musk, number one. Yeah.

So I’m reading the later book by Walter Isaacson on Elon Musk, right? Fascinating character, always been super fascinated about from with his journey, and it’s not easy, right? Yeah, I read a biography on him years ago as well, because it highlights, even though we see the glimpses of a billionaire, but there’s so much grit, and failure, and borderline mental breakdowns, right? Like, the journey hasn’t been easy. So, but at the same time, to have that kind of vision to go, hey, we have to be interplanetary. Because that’s the only way for humanity to survive.

There isn’t a lot of people who are thinking from this perspective. And hopefully, us as a collective can realize some of the dreams that these visionaries hold. And I wish there was more people like that.

That’s less about speculation, less about stock price, more about how can we build a better humanity? In terms of others? Yeah, I think smart mathematicians, but at the same time, it’d be cool to have people that you enjoy with, work with along the way. So I’m a big fan of Rick and Morty. So having a math scientist, Rick would be very fascinating, but we probably end up killing each other.

And he probably Elon Musk will kill each other. So we kind of need a intermediary in the middle to stop that battle. So somebody with superpowers that can, to prevent them from killing each other.

So that’s all I got. How about you? So I think if I had to put up a team, I think you took one. I do think Rick would be a great addition to my team as well.

But then again, can be very abrasive. So because I’m also a very strong person, we might just as you said, we might end up hurting each other. But yes, definitely Rick and perhaps somebody like, you know, I’m a little old school that way.

So I would love to have Iron Man, because, you know, seems very, I think from the very beginning, I’ve kind of admired the way technology was always sort of built in, into his character. And for the third, actually, I’ll have to think a little about this. We’d want somebody who’s a little, because, you know, talking strictly in fictional terms, and I’m thinking like Elon Musk obviously would be a wonderful addition.

But if you had to think in terms of fiction, it would have to be somebody who brings like the right balance of math and science, and cryptography, like some, you know, some character that kind of has a mix of all of these. And with with perhaps a little background in humanity, that would be like a perfect fit. But I’m hard pressed to think of a character right away.

But yeah, Iron Man, Rick and somebody with a little mix of all of these four things, I think that that would be like a great team to build on. Interesting, interesting. It doesn’t make sense for Iron Man to go into battle himself, right? Like the suit can be completely autonomous.

Yeah, it’s a bit more dramatized, but I do see him as a fantastic character. And I love the character a lot as well. Yeah, it’s, it’s really interesting.

Yeah, when you start thinking like that, it is, it’s fairly nice to think and make a hypothetical team. Now I do understand on some level now when I, you know, since I’ve started adding and asking this question, why people are so fascinated by fantasy league sports? Because now I get it, but earlier I used to not. But yeah, it can be interesting to sort of just think about it.

Okay, so now coming to perhaps my penultimate question, a little about, you know, your team and your culture, you know, at Lightlink. And if somebody wants to perhaps join Lightlink, how can they go about doing that? And, you know, if you could give me a brief overview about how many people are there on your team? And what are the various departments? Are you guys working remotely? That’d be wonderful. Yeah, sure.

So I’m based in Melbourne, Australia, but our team is fairly global. Our head of foundation is in Dubai. One of our chief engineers is in Dublin.

We have other engineers around the world in Brazil, in Vietnam, in other parts of Australia as well. So yeah, we’re fairly diverse and global. Personally, I’ve worked, you know, operated predominantly online for decades, communicated online, built companies together online.

Our organization, our team for Lightlink is about 20 at the moment. My co-founder balances me really well. She’s very strong in operations, finance, processes, we’re predominantly, you know, technology and, you know, think about all elements from a technical perspective, right? Um, so we’re fairly open.

There isn’t much hierarchy. It’s a very flat organization. And we communicate well together in Slack, just like a lot of, you know, web3 companies.

Yeah, most web3 companies now are remote, I think, you know, mine too. So I think COVID kind of had a lot of horrors with it. But one good thing that came out of it, perhaps was this move towards remote work, you know, it gives you so much access, right? I mean, hire talent from anywhere.

And that is wonderful. Yeah, yeah, completely agree. And working with us, I think, is fairly easy, you know, because if you send me a email to go, Hey, can I work with you? I’m good at this and that, you know, it’s, it’s very unlikely that I’ll respond to that email, right.

But if you are a participant in the community, if you go to Discord and help people and add value to what we do, and show that you are helpful, you’re resourceful, then it’s very likely you will become an important part of the community. And similarly, if you’re a developer, building on top of the ecosystem, right, like, it’s participating in a hackathon, help us to have a better ecosystem, then I think that will help us heaps. And it will make a lot of sense to for us to figure out how to incentivize you and and reward you for the contribution that you have made to the ecosystem.

And we have funds set aside to reward that type of participation. So yeah, I mean, it’s fairly straightforward. It’s not, you know, can I have a job type of thing, but you know, and I guess this is something that I also value, you know, put money where your mouth is, right, like do the dirty.

Exactly. And it’s not difficult. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Brilliant. So you know, now that you know, our listeners also know how to perhaps get involved with Lightning.

And I for one am very excited to really tinker with your chain after this recording. So now coming to my last question, and this is something I ask everyone that comes up for the show, if you because you know, you’ve been on the other side of the spectrum, and you initially started in Web2 with a gaming platform and whatnot. If you had to give advice to somebody who’s peering in from the other side, what would be your advice to them? You know, perhaps your top three suggestions for them to start living on blockchain? Yeah.

So years ago, I was thinking about, and this is an exercise that I used to do quite often, and I should probably do it now is turn off distractions, right? Like, yeah, because you can occupy your entire day on Twitter, on Discord, on Telegram, turn them all off. And think, think, however you like to think, maybe it’s music, maybe it’s nature, maybe it’s, you know, darkness, maybe it’s, you know, morning or night or whatever, how you think. Think about where the world is going.

Think about how the technology trends are converging. Think about what would matter to people in the future, you know, maybe not present. Think about what would be important in the future, and then go and build it.

You don’t need permission from anybody. Right now, it’s so accessible and so cheap. You know, there is so much open source tooling out there.

There’s so much infrastructure out there. You know, Lightlink is one of them, but there are so much more others like Facebook, open source, it’s Lama too, right? Like, it’s our own world. In terms of thinking about where the future is, and that instead of waiting for it to happen, go and make it happen.

And roll up your sleeves. If you don’t know how to learn, if you don’t know how to do programming, and it’s something that you want to learn, you know, there’s so much free information out there. YouTube can teach you anything.

If you want to be business development in one of the leading companies in the world, you know, go and do it. And like what I was saying earlier about Discord and contributing to the ecosystem, roll up your sleeves and act, right? So I think instead of talking, action speaks louder than everything else. And maybe advice for those who want to participate, think about the future and act on the future and proactively make the future happen.

So go and do that. Yeah, I think that’s very good advice. Just go ahead.

Don’t let your fears strangle you and all your dreams for that matter. And if there is something that you truly believe in solving, go ahead and do it in your small way. And I am a big proponent and I truly believe actually that you know, if you start doing and taking steps in the right direction, help will come.

You know, in case you need help, if you ask people would be more than ready to lend you a helping hand. And right now in this day and age, there’s really no excuse to not go after the things that you truly believe in. Yeah, exactly right.

So Roy, this has been an absolute pleasure. And you know, we are completely out of time. We are running over.

Thank you so much for making the time to speak to me. Before we wrap this up, any last thoughts? No, thanks for the opportunity. It’s really good to speak with you.

I think firstly, I can’t do this alone. So we always do everything as a team. And it’s the dedication, blood, sweat, tears of our team members that make this happen.

So huge thanks to everybody who’s helping us to make this happen. And we hope to be an important part of the new internet, the new infrastructure. And the current technology doesn’t have this scaling capability.

And we’re here to try to introduce this technology for millions and millions of users that should join in the next cycle to see the true benefits and value this technology can provide. So yeah, we’re here and watch what we do. Absolutely.

I’m into that. I think you know, you guys are going to become a very big part of this particular new tech era that we’re already in. And that’s just going to get bigger from here.

Thank you once again, Roy, for speaking to me. This has been a really wonderful conversation. Likewise.

Thank you very much.

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